Why Distance Learning?

Seth Fleischauer (00:00.788)
Hello everyone and welcome to Why Distance Learning, the podcast that challenges misconceptions about live virtual education. Hosted by three seasoned distance learning professionals, myself, Tammy and Allison. Hello ladies.

Tami Moehring (00:13.555)
Hello.

Seth Fleischauer (00:15.112)
We bring you real stories, expert insights and researched back strategies that uncover the true impact of distance learning in today's world. And today's episode is about something that often gets overlooked in conversations about online education. And that is cohesion, not just tech infrastructure or content delivery, but how all the pieces pedagogy, leadership, family engagement, accreditation.

how all these things fit together into a thriving student centered virtual learning ecosystem. That's the systems level vision driving today's guest, Dr. Chris Harrington. With over three decades in educational leadership, Chris has sat in nearly every seat, teacher, principal, consultant, strategist, and now he's building tools and frameworks to help schools align their digital learning efforts across all levels. Chris, welcome to the program.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (01:07.384)
Hey, thanks, Seth. Thank you, Tammy and Allison. I appreciate it. Look forward to being here.

Seth Fleischauer (01:13.108)
That's going be a great conversation. Looking forward to it. Tammy, could you tell us a bit more about our guest?

Tami Moehring (01:19.527)
I'd be happy to. And as you already mentioned, Seth, Dr. Chris Harrington has over 30 years of experience helping districts nationwide build student-centered learning models that work. He founded the Empower Ed Research Institute, which recently launched Digital Learning Works, a new platform that offers research-backed tools and AI-powered chat bot to support pre-K-12 digital learning implementation. He leads a credit...

VED, specialized accreditation and certification system designed specifically to evaluate the quality of virtual schools and programs. Chris, you've seen this field from every angle. What originally pulled you into education and why have you chosen to focus your energy now on distance learning and systems level education or systems level thinking?

Seth Fleischauer (02:14.356)
Chris, hold on. Can I pause just a sec? Do you evaluate? Because the word there is elevate and Tammy said evaluate and I just want to make sure that that was okay. Is that okay? Does a cred fed evaluate things?

Dr. Christopher Harrington (02:14.491)
been that.

Tami Moehring (02:24.393)
Sorry.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (02:29.115)
Yeah, because it's an accreditation program and evaluates the quality of

Seth Fleischauer (02:32.114)
Okay, great, great, great. I thought it could fit. just wanted to make sure. sorry, the question from Tammy was, you know, why have you chosen to focus your energy now on distance learning and systems level thinking? Go.

Allyson (02:33.015)
Mm-hmm.

Allyson (02:37.966)
Ha ha ha ha ha!

Dr. Christopher Harrington (02:45.679)
Hey, thanks for the question. You know, this is an odd thing to say, but I actually got into education to be a woodshop teacher. was a woodshop teacher for a few years. But my passion for technology took over, and then I became more interested in computers and things like that. Over 30 years experience, yeah, I'm like the old guy here, I think. This is not an original concert shirt.

Allyson (02:53.42)
Yes!

Seth Fleischauer (03:13.236)
Barely.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (03:15.703)
I just want to point that out. you know, I had some great teachers when I was a kid going through school, and I feel like I've always been kind of service oriented growing up as a kid.

And then this was a natural fit, know, having those great role models, people I looked up to were teachers. So I went to be a teacher and started from there and helping kids, you know, as I became an adult and, you know, went through college and my teacher prep, was all about helping the kids. Had a family of my own then, but.

As I moved along in my career, I wanted to help more kids and to do that, I moved into administration to help the adults who help the kids. it just kind of just grew from there to doing national level work, working at state levels now in a lot of cases.

Seth Fleischauer (04:09.276)
And let's, let's talk about some of that work. cause one of the things that we often hear is this critique that, distance learning can feel fragmented, different systems, different tools, different agendas, all pulling teachers in different directions. I mean, that could be a criticism of education in general. but you you talk about this power of cohesion and when you and I met, this interview could have gone in lots of different directions. but the work.

because of your deep experience, but the work that you're doing right now is about this cohesion. I'm wondering how you define that cohesion. What does that look like and why does it matter?

Dr. Christopher Harrington (04:51.427)
Yeah, yeah. So for a little bit of context, when I was working in schools as an administrator, I was a technology director at the time when my school district launched a virtual learning program. And this was up in Pennsylvania. We launched a virtual learning program.

Allyson (05:08.458)
Okay.

Seth Fleischauer (05:10.036)
You

Dr. Christopher Harrington (05:13.293)
It was very reactive because this was during, you remember when the recession around 2010-ish and schools had like million dollar shortfalls across the board, across the entire country. And one of the things my district did, like a lot of districts, like where do we start pulling money back in? instead of paying tuition to cyber charter schools, let's stand up a virtual program. And of course, a lot of schools just threw things up.

Allyson (05:19.724)
Yes.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (05:42.651)
kind of, I don't want to say haphazardly, because it didn't feel that way at the time. We thought we were doing the right thing. But we focused on, let's get an LMS and let's train our teachers how to do it. And we should be good, right? And it's like, well, there's a little more to that. And, you know, so we focused on those kinds of things. And what we didn't take into account were all the other structures around the teachers, the kids and the families.

Allyson (05:55.084)
Hahaha

Dr. Christopher Harrington (06:08.323)
So when I think about cohesion, think about from the biology course all the way up to the boardroom, it's like, what are all the structures in place to actually make this successful? Because the technology is not gonna do it alone. I mean, you can get some really great courses and some content, fantastic. You can have great teachers who have been teaching for 15, 20 years, great. But there are so many nuances to a virtual program. And I'm talking about,

You know, things like your curriculum, your course design, your pedagogy, your teaching practices, and then other things like policies and procedures, your funding, you know, what's your long-term funding sources, things like teacher contracts, you know, your collective bargaining agreements with the teachers union, all these things, parents supports.

I mentioned technology, but the technology in kids' households, like all these different things all have to work together. It's kind of like if a whole bunch of people were in a rowboat and everyone's rowing a different direction, or some people don't know they're supposed to row, you're not going to be... It typically doesn't go where you want it to go. So that's kind of... That's what I mean by cohesion. So when you start down this road,

Allyson (07:16.141)
Hahaha

Dr. Christopher Harrington (07:32.143)
You need to think about this bigger picture, at least be aware that there's a bigger picture. And then when you start working on the smaller pieces, you can at least have context.

Seth Fleischauer (07:36.148)
That's the first step, yeah.

Allyson (07:36.302)
Yeah

Seth Fleischauer (07:41.838)
It's so funny. When I tell the story of starting Banning Global Learning, I often use the line that in the beginning it was me, a camera, and 42 kids in Taiwan. that's what it was, right? We didn't put all that much more thought into it. And I do feel that in that era of early video conferencing that we kind of got a bit of a pass because it was so new and unique and interesting that people were just like, my God, I can't believe

Allyson (07:50.286)
You

Seth Fleischauer (08:11.304)
I'm learning like this, like I'm in. Yeah. Right. So like that buy-in was just like the novelty of it, like just got that buy-in. But of course, over time, that's not going to work. And all of these other systems that you're talking about have to be in place in order to have a sustainable, effective approach. What I'm wondering is like, how personalized is this or individualized is this systems level thinking?

Allyson (08:12.45)
The Jetsons are real! Yeah!

Seth Fleischauer (08:40.358)
Like, like, do you go in and assess the culture of any given place and say, okay, all of these things need to be in place, but exactly what they look like is going to depend on the people involved or are there best practices that are true of any system that you're building anywhere or is it somewhere in between?

Dr. Christopher Harrington (09:04.659)
There's a lot of commonalities from program to program. When I first got into this work, I took over a virtual learning program in my district that, well, remember I said, you know, provide some professional development, get an LMS and here we go. It didn't end well after that first year. I was the technology director at the time and I was the one who was trying to provide all the technology for the program.

Allyson (09:19.234)
Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (09:30.969)
but I was operating my own silo, so was the person leading the program. And it was just very fragmented and separate. So, you know, was, that was my introduction to virtual learning. But since then at Allison, knowing you're from Pennsylvania, I helped 40 or 50 school districts in Pennsylvania alone.

launch their own virtual programs. And I'll tell you Seth, to answer your question, everybody does it differently. There's some commonalities, you you're going to need some core components and certain components are going to be more critical than others. But everybody has their nuances, every district has their own nuances. Maybe it's the kids that you're serving, who your target population is, to the different things about parents acceptance and buy in and what your financial situations like, what your academic programs like.

what your teachers unions like, what's, you know, there's so many different things. I could never go into a school and help them launch a program and say, here it is, just read through this and, you know, we can check in from time to time and everything will be great. That's not how it works at all. So yeah, I do go in and I go in and I help a virtual program leader assess where they are. If they're just starting a program, well, we start at the very beginning, like, what's your why? Like your real why.

because sometimes it's about the money, you know, and I hate to say that. And so sometimes quality is an afterthought, you know, but when I ask these questions, it's the kind of not just learn for myself where the school wants to go, but also help them understand all the pieces that are needed. And, you know, one of the new things that I'm doing, I don't know if we want to talk about this now or not, but...

Allyson (11:02.914)
Hmm.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (11:21.211)
When we talk about cohesion, some of the things I'm doing at a state level in some states, we actually start off the process with what's called a comprehensive needs assessment. And we have a tool that we use that aligns to the national standards for quality online programs. And what we do is we go through this self-assessment and it helps highlight areas of need, okay? Just common areas. And then we build from there.

But even before that program was launched earlier this year, the process was still the same. You have to go in and you have to customize a program for that school, that population, and for where they are right there at that moment. It's all in evolution. There's human beings involved, and human beings can be all over the place, different people.

Seth Fleischauer (12:12.092)
Human beings involved for now.

Allyson (12:13.87)
For always, the technology as was beautifully mentioned at the beginning is the tool. It's just the vehicle. Humans still have to operate it. But it is so interesting. Well, I am one for research. I am one for loving, as Tammy knows. I love to do a little bit of a SWOT analysis here and there to identify our needs.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (12:14.885)
Thank

Seth Fleischauer (12:16.18)
You

Allyson (12:40.0)
As Tammy can tell you, that's usually what I like to do before and after a program. So it is so exciting to hear you talk about how you can go in, think about the long-term vision, but also the personalization that is necessary because every school has their own schedule. So they have their own rhythm and their own bells and their own ways of doing things. So it's really interesting to hear that being a lot of your part of your philosophy. And I wonder,

We hear a lot about the idea of skepticism around accreditation and what does that mean? And people can always play with the philosophy of an ideal critic, but you seem to have a really nice method about understanding that it is going to be personal to that entity. So I wonder what role should this specialized accreditation, like a cred-ved play in helping virtual programs grow with integrity and impact and also

The idea, I love that you use the word silo, that they're part of a larger community. And even though you're not have to make it the same exact thing, you can still learn or enhance your recipe with it.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (13:48.321)
Yeah, for sure. So, so cred bed, it's a program from the Virtual Learning Leadership Alliance. And they're, kind of like the go to group in this country of K 12 virtual programs. And VLLA Virtual Learning Leadership Alliance is 20 statewide virtual schools and consortia that that are at the forefront of virtual learning. And they do things really, really well.

There are lot of accrediting, there are accrediting bodies in the United States, like Cognia, WASC, middle states, great organizations. I respect them tremendously. The problem is, and VLLA recognized this, that when trying to accredit a virtual program, whether it's a school itself or a program, a statewide program, or a virtual academy within a district,

It's like a square peg in a round hole. It's not a fit. So I worked with them. They reached out to me and we developed an accreditation program that works for virtual programs that's all tightly, and I mean tightly aligned to those national standards for quality online programs. So the purpose for VLLA and one of the things in their mission is to just help strengthen virtual learning across the country, period.

they want this to be available to programs so that they can grow their programs and improve their quality. Sure, they use it, they take advantage of it. And some folks, honestly, some of the programs that are interested in accreditation, yeah, they wanna check that box because they wanna say, we're accredited. Or there may even be legislation where they have to be accredited. So.

Sometimes people do that. Sometimes in some states where, you it was competing for kids because the dollars follow the kids. know, it's like, ooh, I want this accreditation so I can be better than everybody else and promote the heck out of it. you know, and I get it. Whatever your motivation, fine. We're about the quality. So one of the things that happens in this accreditation is there's a report that comes out of it.

Allyson (15:44.352)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (15:44.99)
Mm-hmm.

Allyson (15:50.254)
you

Dr. Christopher Harrington (16:06.713)
that talks about areas for growth. And there are some specific recommendations about where the program could grow. And the programs that are going through accreditation, by and large, they are looking for that report because they know they're good already. Like it's a rigorous process. They just want to get better. Tell me where our areas of weakness are because...

Seth Fleischauer (16:11.422)
Hmm.

Allyson (16:24.462)
You

Seth Fleischauer (16:29.044)
Hmm.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (16:30.681)
We owe it to the kids and we owe it to the families. So, all right. So they go through that. So I think it really depends on where you are and who you are and how you're really viewing your virtual program as to whether or not you see value in accreditation. There are some states like where you get district level accreditation. So when you get accredited, if your school district, brick and mortar district gets accredited, then your virtual program's

Seth Fleischauer (16:47.07)
Hmm.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (16:59.041)
accredited to so yeah we don't need to do that then you know it's that happens too.

Allyson (17:02.286)
Mmm.

Allyson (17:06.68)
So interesting, especially reading recently about how different virtual micro schools and academies are popping up. It's really good for everyone to learn about the opportunities to be accredited. And also, I love the opportunity to see where can we grow, where are the needs and where are the areas that are opportunities for growth, even though sometimes that's the W in the SWOT. It's still opportunity in my mind.

Seth Fleischauer (17:30.516)
So at, so at, yeah. Yeah. And, and I, and, in terms of that growth and accreditation, you know, you're, you're, you're operating in this world of, of the Y right? Like even if someone wants to get the accreditation just because that's what they need in order to be competitive or that's they need in order to do business at all.

Allyson (17:35.87)
You can turn it around and do towels if you wanted to.

Seth Fleischauer (17:58.416)
or if that's what they need in order to improve. There's a why that's coming from the leadership that may or may not translate to all the people that actually need to grab an or and row in the same direction. And I'm wondering about that piece of of is it it messaging like like how can you or maybe you can share an example.

of a moment when like a district or a school embrace transformation because the old ways didn't work even though there were multiple crises they could otherwise pay attention to. Right? How did you, how can you bring together a group of people to get them to ignore those like little fires that are everywhere and start to say, okay, we're headed here and we're headed here together.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (18:55.927)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so there's a, one of the things that we see in schools, it just feels like, and most schools that I talk to, yeah, we're losing kids, and they don't always know where those kids are going. They're just not enrolling in school anymore. And I think part of the reason why is families are looking for other options. Like this model of traditional brick and mortar just doesn't fit anymore. And I think...

I think what schools are doing with virtual learning is, in a lot of cases, is they're taking virtual learning and say, OK, this model doesn't fit for you anymore. We have something else for you. And that's their motivation to create an alternative way of learning. And that's through the virtual program.

And so I think that's a motivation for a lot of folks. Money is still a motivator because honestly, in a lot of states, Pennsylvania being one of them, where if a student leaves your district to enroll in a cyber charter school, the money follows them. And that hurts schools, the brick and mortars. It hurts them a lot. So there's this battle for funding. So that's a motivation. There is one school in Pennsylvania that I'm super proud of.

I'm going to call him out here because...

Allyson (20:15.651)
I was going to ask, can you tell us the districts or names that I was trying to wait till like, didn't know if we were allowed to ask.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (20:20.085)
Yeah, I'm going to call them out because they are totally doing this the right way and they're doing it for all the right reasons. It's Oxford area school district down in Chester County. It's not far from you, Yeah, and they have a segment of their population that will just do better in a virtual space. So they're building this virtual program. They're designing all of their own content.

Allyson (20:31.168)
No, I... No, it's not.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (20:46.523)
So I'm working with them to guide them through that process and to learn how to teach in that environments. We're pulling a lot of resource. It's the whole cohesion approach. So, you know, I'm working with the leadership. have folks working with teachers who are designing content and teaching courses. And we're just kind of going through that whole process, but they're invested in it for quality. They know that you can't fake this. Well, that's not true. You can fake it.

Seth Fleischauer (21:14.484)
Hehehehehe

Dr. Christopher Harrington (21:16.495)
But your true colors will show within a year or two years where it's just like you have a lot of people who enroll because you can market your program really well, but they're going to walk just as quickly if the quality is not there. Oxford knows that and they're doing it all right. So they're investing in this. And this is a long term investment. I've been with them for two years now. I'll be with them for a couple more years. And because they just want this guidance and this structure. And I applaud them for that.

Allyson (21:44.878)
Yay.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (21:45.721)
You know, so there are some really superficial motivations to want to do this. It's not for the faint of heart. Like this is work to do it well. So there's some superficial motivation. Sometimes it's money. Sometimes it's like, yeah, you know what? We have these kids that are just discipline problems and we need to go somewhere with them because they're causing a real problem in the brick and mortar. And in some states, not Pennsylvania, but in some states,

A virtual program is required to be its own separate school, separate LEA, which has its own graduation rate. So sometimes schools will set up a virtual program and ship kids off there so that the graduation rate doesn't hurt the, right? It's messed up. But you see it's a reaction to some other things that are going on. So sometimes we start programs like this as a reactive measure.

Seth Fleischauer (22:22.516)
Mm-hmm.

Allyson (22:29.639)
Yeah, a loophole they've created, yeah.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (22:40.835)
And sometimes like Oxford, you do it for all the right reasons. There's a lot of examples of really good reasons to do this and great exemplars out there too.

Seth Fleischauer (22:52.414)
Well, Chris, one of the things we like to do on this podcast is keep the conversation going across episodes by bringing in some memorable quotes from past guests. This one I think might challenge some of this thinking a little bit, but we'll see how you, how you field it. Tammy, can you bring that in?

Tami Moehring (23:09.023)
I'd be happy to. So back in episode 27, we had Valerie Olenek from the United States Distance Learning Association. And she also has her own business, but said something that stuck with all of us. She said, we always sort of fall back to, the technology. If I only had a better system, if I only had a new platform and it's not, it's about the people we're serving.

Allyson (23:15.596)
Yay!

Tami Moehring (23:35.625)
So Chris, you've worked across so many layers of digital learning from leadership to pedagogy to accreditation. How does this quote resonate with you and where do you see schools getting stuck in the tech conversation and what does it take to refocus on people and purpose instead?

Allyson (23:55.726)
Hmm.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (23:55.963)
Yeah. Well, first of all, I'd like you to introduce me to Valerie, because I want to have a drink with Valerie, because I totally agree.

Allyson (24:00.494)
Oh my gosh. Yes, Valerie is amazing. We will totally connect with her and she has her business is called Val. Yes, Valerie with a Y gamification is what she can talk about for so many days and she is now going to move into a new position of USDLA. So yay, Valerie.

Tami Moehring (24:03.251)
Fun energy.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (24:19.643)
All right, well, here's possibly my memorable quote in response to her memorable quote. Education is a people business, always has been, always will be. The technology is going to come and go. I'm a technology, I was a technology director for nearly 15 years. I saw it all come and go, new systems, old systems, new devices, old, remember Palm Pilots? It was around during the Palm Pilot times.

Allyson (24:24.718)
Hmm.

Allyson (24:43.224)
Yes!

Seth Fleischauer (24:43.412)
you

Dr. Christopher Harrington (24:46.467)
I was around when one-to-one laptop initiatives were like, my gosh, this could be an awesome thing. And we just used it as electronic handouts is what we did. The devices will come and go. AI, you could say the same thing about it. It's going to be highly disruptive, no doubt, already is. But honestly, it's a tool. Tools like technology can help the humans do the human things and can help them do it well.

if we approach it the right way. So I think the technology, can't hang yourself, hang all of your efforts and hang your success on the technology because there's gonna be, as soon as your district adopts something, there's something new right around the corner. So it's never going to be about the technology itself. If it was, well then maybe we don't need teachers anymore. That's just silly, right?

Allyson (25:39.288)
Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (25:40.183)
So, I mean, it's how we're going to use it, how we're going to use any kind of tool. It's always about the people. And what I've learned, you know, in my 30 plus years in education, and I'll never forget some of the old guys when I was a new teacher, yeah, I remember this, this is gonna go away, this is gonna pass. I'm like, you're just an old grumpy person. But you know what? Totally right.

And it's true, because it's always going to come back to the teacher and the skills. And honestly, to go a little bit further than that, it's relationships. And I don't care what level you're talking, know, elementary all the way up to higher ed, it's the relationships within a class. you know, with kids and adults, adults and adults, kids and kids, that's what makes it all work. And technology can help us do that, but it won't do it for us.

Seth Fleischauer (26:06.269)
Hehehehe

Seth Fleischauer (26:37.188)
Alison, you want to, sorry. Go.

Allyson (26:37.342)
so, yeah, no, I was just gonna say so beautiful, like so beautifully stated. You've had so many experiences from being, and I'm so envious of all of the roles that you've gotten to play in all the different ways and excited to learn from this conversation. But I wonder with all of the experience in all of the different spaces that you have been.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (26:50.107)
Thank

Allyson (26:59.47)
and had the opportunity to work with different students and teachers and parents and families and communities in larger ways. Do you have a golden moment, something that sticks out in your mind that helps you know the work that you're doing, the medium of distance learning and virtual experiences, virtual teaching and learning works, that it works in the way that aligns with that long-term vision?

Dr. Christopher Harrington (27:26.169)
Yeah, yeah, I have a few, but you stick around long enough, you see a lot of these moments, but around virtual learning, I'll never forget in Atlanta, a friend of mine, he's actually working on the Oxford project with me. We went down there to help the virtual, countywide virtual program.

redeveloped their content and the teachers were a mess, the leadership was a bit of a mess. It just felt like they were an afterthought in the county system. And when we started bringing order to their universe, so to speak, they were so energized. It's like they brought that spark back. One person getting ready to retire, she decided not to retire because we wanted to see this thing through.

So that was a win for them. My own kids are graduates of a virtual program in Pennsylvania. you know, there's golden moment after golden moment there, but the one that's most impactful for me, and this is not an exaggeration at all. I remember a parent once set up an appointment for me or with me in my virtual program and...

She said she thinks she needs her kid to go into online learning. So, here, let's sit down and we talk. And she brought her son along with her. And we sat down in the office, and the kid had bandages around his wrists, right? And she was clearly upset. Here, the kid tried to kill himself. And she was hoping that it was just like things were that bad for that kid. And she said,

Seth Fleischauer (28:57.458)
Hmm.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (29:10.771)
he wants to be in school, this doesn't work for him. And you know, she's like super upset. We got him enrolled. And we took care of the kid. And we made sure that we gave personalized attention, which we want to do for every kid, right. But there was a little bit higher stake right here. That golden moment was in my role as you know, in my district, I sat up on the stage and helped hand out diplomas and that kid walked across the stage.

Allyson (29:24.779)
Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (29:38.423)
Nothing moved me in my whole education career more than that did. Because it's just like, you know what, if I didn't make myself available, I'm busy. Like we're all busy. We all get stuck in our routines. What if I didn't make time for that? Like, did this, did the program actually play that big of a role in the kid's life? Funny story then, talking to a guy who was a principal in a virtual program as part of Denver Public Schools out in Colorado.

Seth Fleischauer (29:43.849)
Hmm.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (30:06.755)
have a similar story. I think there's more of them out there. You know, there's other less extreme stories for sure. There's a lot of golden moments in virtual learning. And it's a story that doesn't get told though, you know, unfortunately. appreciate that question.

Allyson (30:08.27)
Mm.

Seth Fleischauer (30:08.564)
Hmm.

Allyson (30:20.236)
Yeah. No, that's such a beautiful moment. So beautiful. Goosebumps.

Seth Fleischauer (30:20.516)
Except here.

Seth Fleischauer (30:28.808)
Yeah, thank you so much. And you know, this really like, this is why we have this question is why we have this podcast, right? Is to get these stories out here. So thank you for bringing that. You know, you've done all of this work at all these different levels. Right now, it's systems level thinking. From that perspective, we have to ask the title of the podcast, why distance learning?

Dr. Christopher Harrington (30:54.011)
You know, think with distance learning has been a need for a long, long time. And this is my editorial here right now. I think we are responsible for holding it back. Education, like our structures, our traditional ways of doing things. It's thriving in a lot of places, places that let it thrive. I don't think, I don't think it's an option for us anymore.

I think what we need to do is stop trying to prevent it to be mainstream because it already is mainstream. If you look around education, look at, well, outside of K-12, you look at higher ed, you look at industry, you know, can enroll as a kindergartner, you can enroll in an online program and you can go all the way through to your doctorate as an online learner. You can't tell me it's not there and it doesn't work, right?

It's just those who choose to make it work. So, you know, I think about where industry is also. The expectations at higher ed, the expectations in industry, your training, it's all there. To me, it's more of a life skill now to be able to at have some sort of experience. And if we don't allow that for kids, there's some states that make online learning part of graduation requirements. Like it's like in the legislation.

If we don't provide those experiences, we're really not preparing kids for their future. And we have to question whether or not we're just doing it of adult convenience, right? We are also seeing something else, Seth, around the country. I do work and have a lot of conversations with departments of education around virtual learning. There is an increased demand for quality. And I think that means the tide might be turning a little bit in some ways.

Okay, there's always going to be obstacles or there's always going to be naysayers and things like that. And in some states, the narrative is so strong against virtual learning or putting it in a place it's just for those kids that can't do it elsewhere. It's a little upsetting, but we're starting to see this call for quality now. The National Standards for Quality Online Learning, the accreditation program, it's not going away. So it's now.

Seth Fleischauer (33:15.508)
Hmm. So well said. Thank you, Chris. Tammy Allison. Any last questions before we let Chris go?

Allyson (33:19.16)
Yes.

Allyson (33:23.374)
I am so grateful to learn from you. my goodness. I love the last statement that you said about the relationship that we have with distance learning and the responsibility for us thinking about the younger generations and the role that this plays forever in work, career, college pathways. So thank you so much for articulating it so beautifully and I appreciate your time and I can't wait to continue to learn from you as well. I hope we have more conversations.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (33:50.723)
I'm up for it.

Tami Moehring (33:52.937)
same. Chris, you did a great job. You're probably going to have many quotes in future episodes, I can tell. I have to say you're probably a pretty good shop teacher because as I can see in the video, you have all 10 fingers. So it's great to hear that that was your background too.

Allyson (34:00.483)
Yes.

Seth Fleischauer (34:01.072)
You

Dr. Christopher Harrington (34:08.219)
I have all my fears.

Allyson (34:09.656)
Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (34:14.159)
Maybe I just got out in time.

Seth Fleischauer (34:14.58)
man, what a funny standard to hold people to. Chris, last question. Where on the internet can we find your work?

Allyson (34:15.799)
Yeah!

Allyson (34:21.334)
Yeah.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (34:27.227)
Probably the best place is LinkedIn to find me, there is Digital Learning Works, a CredVed, and the EmpowerEd Research Institute. I lead all of those.

Allyson (34:41.868)
Yay, and we'll link them in all of the show notes so everybody knows how to connect with you and also check out all of the wonderful work that you lead.

Dr. Christopher Harrington (34:49.987)
I appreciate that. Thank you.

Allyson (34:51.512)
Of

Seth Fleischauer (34:51.74)
Awesome. Well, listeners, if you've ever wondered how to move from disconnected tools to an intentional student centered virtual ecosystem, Dr. Chris Harrington's work offers a clear strategic roadmap. Thank you so much for being here and for elucidating your approach. you, as Allison said, please check the show notes for any links to his work. Thank you as always to our editor, Lucas Salazar and

Allyson (35:18.158)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (35:19.194)
If this episode sparked a new way of thinking, please share it with a colleague, follow us or leave a review. It helps other educators discover these conversations. Curious about what's really possible in live virtual learning? Keep tuning in. These are the voices transforming distance education one bold idea at a time. Why distance learning? Because it's aligned, impactful and here to stay. See you next time.