Why Distance Learning?

Seth Fleischauer (00:00.971)
Hello everyone and welcome to Why Distance Learning, the podcast that challenges misconceptions about live virtual education hosted by three seasoned distance learning professionals, myself, Tammy and Allison. Hello ladies.

Amanda (00:02.362)
Yeah.

Allyson (00:13.017)
Hi!

Seth Fleischauer (00:15.905)
Tammy, that's where you also say hi.

Tami Moehring (00:18.05)
Hello.

Allyson (00:19.833)
Seth Fleischauer (00:24.353)
I'll do that again. hosted by three seasoned distance learning professionals, myself, Tammy and Allison. Hello ladies.

Allyson (00:33.305)
Hi!

Tami Moehring (00:33.464)
Hello.

Seth Fleischauer (00:35.103)
We bring you real stories, expert insights and research back strategies that uncover the true impact of distance learning in today's world. And today's episode is about modernizing career and technical education known in the biz as CTE, not just by adding technology to existing systems, but by re-imagining what hands-on career aligned learning can look like in a fully virtual environment.

What if students could explore health science careers through virtual simulations? What if workforce readiness could begin in a Zoom room and be just as rigorous and personal as any in-person program? That's the vision driving today's guest, Amanda Bell, an innovative CTE leader who's pushing the boundaries of what's possible in health science education. From curriculum design to immersive tech integration, she's shaping the future of how students learn and succeed online.

Amanda, welcome to the program.

Amanda (01:30.747)
Thank you. Your introduction makes me sound much bigger than I feel like I am.

Seth Fleischauer (01:36.762)
and we're not even done yet. Tammy, could you tell us more about Alice? Sorry, Tammy, could you tell us more about Amanda?

Allyson (01:38.361)
You

Tami Moehring (01:44.15)
I'd be happy to. Amanda Bell has worked in career and technical education for 14 years, focusing on integrating advanced technologies into health science instruction and modernizing traditional teaching methods. She's designed online and hybrid courses that leverage VR, AR, and AI to build immersive learning experiences. Her work.

expands curriculum design, instructional leadership, and program coordination, giving her a unique view of both the teaching and the administrative sides of CTE. Amanda's collaboration with education leaders and industry partners and tech firms have helped bridge the gap between classrooms and career with a strong emphasis on personalization, equity, and future readiness. Amanda, you've had such a dynamic career. What led you into the field of

career and technical education in the first place.

Seth Fleischauer (02:42.625)
I'm not sure if you heard that Amanda. The question was what led you to the field of career and technical education in the first place? Tammy, you're just breaking up a little bit which isn't going to affect the recording at all, but that was the question.

Amanda (02:48.476)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (02:55.778)
what led me to it? Good question. So I started my career as an athletic trainer. I got my degree and then my master's degree in sports medicine. we, my husband and I ended up moving to Minnesota and I didn't find a lot of job opportunities within that field. And I knew that the hours that I had to work as an athletic trainer and him being a football coach didn't really go together very well.

We probably wouldn't see each other very often. So I fell back on something that I was very familiar and comfortable with and decided I wanted to do was teaching because everybody in my family are teachers. And I said, no, not going to do it. But then eventually found my way there. And career in tech ed just fit perfectly because I had that love of health care built by my foundation in athletic training and my just love for all things sciences, anatomy.

And so it was just kind of a perfect fit. And then a job opening came up at the South Central Service Cooperative that was perfect. I didn't know it at the time, but now I know it is the perfect job for me.

Allyson (04:06.681)
K-

Seth Fleischauer (04:06.977)
Hmm.

I love teaching families. I guess I'm kind of in a teaching family and I feel, my stepmom was a teacher, my mom was a teacher, my grandma was a teacher. I feel like my daughter is gonna be a teacher whether or not she's actually a teacher, just because you kind of train them their entire life to be a teacher. It's just like an approach that you take to new things and new experiences and learning. When I'm hiring for my company, I always look...

Allyson (04:12.481)
You

Seth Fleischauer (04:39.225)
Like if I hear that someone comes from a teaching family, I'm like, okay, cool. We're in business now. I love that. Can you tell us though about High Step Virtual Academy in particular? Walk us through what it is, how it works and how it's evolved since its launch.

Amanda (04:42.933)
You

Amanda (04:56.794)
Absolutely. So we started the High Step Health Science Academy in 2010. And our goal was to introduce high school students to careers in healthcare and allow them to explore different areas of healthcare. We all know doctors, nurses, which we love, but there's so many other areas within healthcare that you can work in. And so we wanted to make sure that students were able to explore

all of those different possibilities and then receive some sort of hands-on experiences so they could really feel like what it would be like to be in the job and get a real understanding of what it would be like if they went down this career path. So we started the program 2010 and we were working with one school district. So I only had one school in a couple of classes that I taught and eventually we started to grow.

more schools within our consortium area where the cooperative services wanted to be a part of this because they're smaller school districts, they're rural, and so they wouldn't be able to afford to hire just a health science teacher for their school district. So by working together, we're able to share services where we have one health science instructor that can teach to multiple schools in our region.

And so as we started to expand, we grew, obviously, the number of students, we grew the courses that were available, and then we started to expand our partnerships with our health care facilities in order to give our students a hands-on, on-site experience. And that just continued to evolve to now we're at 12 school districts that we work with currently. We have...

Another health science instructor besides myself and we currently just hired a third one. So we see the demand and the need for this program. And with that, with the expansion and with schools being rural and there's a distance, quite a bit of a distance between them, the teacher isn't able to drive back and forth all over every day. we can...

Amanda (07:15.416)
I guess came up with the idea or started building our courses online. So that way our students would be able to get the content or kind of what we call the classroom or lecture part of the course online. So that way when we did meet in person, we could focus more on the hands-on activities, which they're really interested in and want to do instead of being, you know, lectured at or a PowerPoint about a certain job. They want to know, experience what it's like to be in that job.

Allyson (07:45.689)
Mm.

Amanda (07:46.106)
So that's basically how we started and then how the online courses began.

Allyson (07:51.469)
That's really wonderful. I love learning more and more about high step history. Just knowing having been able to have worked with you before. Another really exciting part about your program is the idea that it's able to be personalized for the remote student and also overall for any of the learners that are participating. And I wonder if you could tell us a little bit more about how you've been able to craft programming where it meets students at their needs so it feels tailored and the role that technology.

Amanda (07:55.418)
You

Allyson (08:20.097)
plays to help do that and maybe even some examples of those tools that help students get that learning and that reinforcement with you and then after the time that they're in person with you.

Amanda (08:25.018)
yeah.

Amanda (08:31.305)
Yep, absolutely. So even with the expanded opportunities that we have, we still have some school districts where an on-site possibility for them to come visit just does not work or doesn't work in their schedule. Students now, high school students specifically, have so many requirements that they have to complete. They might not be able to carve out a time in their day where they could leave the school to go to a hospital or a clinic.

to receive that hands-on experience. And so we really want to try and figure out how we can best serve those students too, as well as the ones that are able to come on site. And so with the online courses, we developed them using Storyline 360, which is just a program that you can use to build online classes and try to make them as interactive as possible with avatars and voiceovers and

I need a voiceover right there. And interactive activities for them. But then we've recently brought in more technology, more immersive technology, including VR. And we are using the VR on the headsets, on the computer. And then we also have a mobile app that we're able to use for students, because we all know they're on their phones all the time. And most recently, we've integrated AI.

Allyson (09:29.258)
Hahaha

Seth Fleischauer (09:29.802)
You

Allyson (09:52.185)
You

Amanda (09:55.884)
into our programs where we've built out AI communication models. Because one of the biggest things that we've learned, not only from working with students, but from working with industry, is that they are really looking for those soft skills that are very hard to teach. How do you teach how to be a good communicator? How do you teach how to be on time? How do you teach not to be on your phone when you're supposed to be working? Those types of things. So with the AI communication model, it's one way.

that we can get as close as possible to in-person real life, communicating with a patient or a resident. And ours specifically is focused on nursing assistant, because that's my main area that I work with as the nursing assistant class. So with the VR, we've built out our nursing assistant skills. So all of the skills that they can be tested on to become certified are on the VR headset, they're on the computer, and they're also on the mobile app.

So just another way to reinforce in that repetition that we teach students to reinforce the skills, the steps that are going to be needed in order for them to pass their certification exams. So I just kind of see it as different teaching techniques, I guess, where you have the online class, you have the VR, the mobile app, you know, any VR AI on the computer, just multiple ways of learning.

And repetition to me, found is really big, especially when you're teaching specific skills within healthcare.

Seth Fleischauer (11:29.791)
And can you kind of walk me through like what that experience is like on the app versus in VR? you use the word simulation. So are these, are you practicing what the actual job would be like? It's just that the stakes are very low because it's not a real patient, just a virtual simulation. Is that about it? Can you, can you walk me through it a bit?

Amanda (11:40.911)
Mm-hmm.

Amanda (11:47.706)
Yes.

Amanda (11:54.328)
Yep, absolutely. that's the key is VR is the closest thing we can get to real life right now without, you know, physically being there and working with a patient or a resident. And it's low stakes. It's no stakes because you're not going to hurt anybody unless you accidentally run into a wall, which I've done on the VR headset. So you have to make sure you have your boundary in place.

Tami Moehring (11:55.214)
you

Allyson (12:09.337)
You

Seth Fleischauer (12:12.353)
And

Tami Moehring (12:13.017)
Ha ha!

Seth Fleischauer (12:16.895)
And we'll see how the AI overlords think about this once they take over and whether or not we did some damage in these realms in the meantime, but keep going. Yeah.

Amanda (12:24.726)
Yeah, right. Yep, low stakes. And so the students are in there and they are the nursing assistants or the nurse and they're taking care of that patient. They're doing their vital signs. They're doing, let's see, what else do we have? Bed baths, bed pans, everything that would go into being a nursing assistant. So they're also getting a feel of what it would be like to be on the job.

And I count this as a success in our program. I've had students come back to me and say, not for me, I can't do it. I'm not going to be able to pass out at the sight of blood, or I can't care for someone that closely. And that to me is a success, because then the student knows ahead of time before they go on to college.

Allyson (13:09.357)
Hmm.

Amanda (13:21.604)
further education or training that this probably isn't the pathway for me, so maybe I should start exploring different areas.

Seth Fleischauer (13:27.553)
This particular question to this this time, but I know that in healthcare there's a lot of talk about like personal safety in the wake of like some people bringing their trauma with them into the interaction with a nurse. How spicy does it get?

Allyson (13:51.544)
haha

Seth Fleischauer (13:51.601)
in the in the simulation, right? Like, is it pretty straightforward and you're just going through like the standard skills or do they have to deal with some stuff?

Amanda (13:52.962)
Mm-hmm.

We do have some simulations where they are dealing with residents who have typically dementia or Alzheimer's disease. And so they do have to employ those skills that they're taught in the class on how to deescalate the situation and then bring everyone to safety, to a safe point and protecting themselves, but then also the patient or the resident.

So those are definitely things that we think about and consider. Those are specifically, we do have some VR modules for that and our AI is really focused on that. with, we call them difficult conversations, because they're speaking with residents with dementia, those nearing death, speaking with the family of someone who's near death or has passed away. So how you really have those hard conversations.

Allyson (14:58.046)
And even that alone, it's so interesting to hear that some of the students would come back and say, know, especially since we were just talking about teaching families, sometimes it's healthcare families, a family of nurses or doctors or those experiences. So to have the opportunity to dive in both with the knowledge, which is amazing with the online course, but then that hands-on or AI scenario base, one of those just maybe isn't a strength or you know that that's not a skill set you want to develop because being

putting yourself in those situations has to be challenging. And you said same thing with the, how do you teach not to be on the phone? How do you teach someone to prepare for that kind of conversation or to be that level of support in the care team? So, so interesting the way that you've been building it out.

Amanda (15:40.794)
Absolutely. like I've said before, it's the closest we can get to real life without them actually being in this situation. So if they can practice a scenario before they're in it, I think that's always beneficial.

Seth Fleischauer (15:59.169)
This is maybe a little too philosophical of a question, but do you think at all about the irony of like using computers to train people to be human?

Amanda (16:07.694)
Yep. 100%. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't. But I think just the way, obviously, our world is now and the way technology is growing, I feel like these things are going to start being embedded even in healthcare. And so our students are a step ahead because they've had experience with VR, they've had experience with AI, which are actually things that are

industry partners have requested. We want our new employees to have an understanding and know how to work with AI, how to use VR, because those things are starting to be integrated into healthcare now.

Tami Moehring (16:42.765)
you

Allyson (16:46.253)
And it's interesting that you're also putting a humanity to the use of the technology, the way that you're using it and leveraging it as a tool. Because in some cases, if we look at the military field, simulations have been used for so many years to be able to prepare for a certain type of field training, whatever that may be under that umbrella. But to hear it in the healthcare and how you're utilizing it to think about as a human, how can I help this be a tool that

Tami Moehring (17:00.878)
you

Amanda (17:12.386)
Mm-hmm.

Allyson (17:14.275)
prepares me for the field is really thinking, I think, deeply about it as a tool as opposed to a trend or something that you can just use and not think about the outcome. And I wonder because you use all of the, you've been working in education technology and also Amanda does amazing things for the virtual academies overall at South Central Service Cooperative. So I wonder with you having been in this kind of.

Amanda (17:21.802)
Yep.

Mm-hmm.

Allyson (17:40.889)
in between education and technology and that intersecting so often, how do you define success for students online? You mentioned before, is it just identifying what works and what doesn't? Is there other ways or strategies you employ to help achieve it? I just wonder how does that, and especially with the workforce too, how do you see that success in those different levels in online communities?

Amanda (17:59.973)
Mm-hmm.

Absolutely, and that's a really good question because it's different measuring than when you're in person. One of the biggest things I've seen from the start having online classes specifically for high school students is now we're teaching them life skills because they don't have a physical teacher. They're telling them you need to log in. You need to do this. This is your assignment. You need to have this done. It's them. It's their self management, time management, getting motivated to do it, and that's something

Allyson (18:22.585)
Mm.

Amanda (18:37.998)
that's a life skill they're going to have to have whether they go on to college or they go into a job right after. And in our exit surveys and some of the surveys we've done, that's been a huge thing that students have mentioned is that it's taught me some of the skills that I know I'm going to need when I go on to college or into my career. So I see that as a

huge success even if they didn't learn anything from the material they studied. At least they learned a valuable life skill that they can take on with them.

Allyson (19:10.707)
Yes.

Seth Fleischauer (19:14.389)
Something we talk a lot about on this podcast is this idea of like building community in a virtual environment. A lot of people feel, you know, maybe because of some bad experiences over COVID that it's not possible or at least not as possible as in person. I was just having a conversation the other day with a friend of mine trying to, I tried to convince him that he just has the wrong mindset about it, but he wasn't hearing me. You know, he wants to, he wants the full body.

Amanda (19:27.384)
We did it.

Tami Moehring (19:32.696)
Thanks.

Allyson (19:39.385)
Ha!

Seth Fleischauer (19:44.193)
like body language that he can read. He wants to like, you know, share in the same physical space as people in order to be able to make that connection. You know, my perspective is just like, you have to believe that it's a shared space or else you're not going to be able to get there. But I'm wondering, because a lot of what you've talked about is, it sounds like individuals engaging with the online environment, but I'm wondering if there's a community aspect to what you're doing online.

Amanda (19:54.298)
Mm-hmm.

Tami Moehring (20:09.358)
you

Amanda (20:10.188)
Yeah, there is absolutely. We're pulling together students from multiple school districts. So you're meeting and talking to within our online classes, students from, you know, different schools and areas that you probably have never met before. And one thing I've seen even from like our discussion boards is one place where we get a lot of our interaction is they learn from each other and different experiences.

or they learn that they've had some of the same experiences and they can relate to those, which is, think, is a huge benefit.

The community too, I think online learning is not for everyone. It's not. Some people like your friend highly prefer the in-person and that's fine. I personally loved online learning. I got a master's degree online and I loved it. I think that's kind of how I fell into it. But it's really about what you make of it. You can...

make as much out of it as you want to get from it. It'll mirror back to you what you put into it, which I think is a lot in life. But if you put a lot of effort and communication and time into it, then you're going to get that back from not only the content, but the others in the course with you.

Seth Fleischauer (21:35.553)
What I love about that is that it means that if one of my students didn't learn, it's their fault.

Allyson (21:40.473)
It was, Tammy and I have had the privilege of being able to work with Amanda on a couple different projects. And it was so fun to see her students come together in a live experience she had that we had with a, where they, what was it, a knee. It was no, an autopsy, cadaver demonstration. And that was all online connecting with a doctor in St. Louis. And then,

Amanda (21:41.146)
100%. It's never the teacher's fault. Right?

Amanda (22:01.7)
Mm-hmm.

Allyson (22:08.375)
We also were able to sit in and learn and help support a virtual lab, which Amanda was able to conduct as in like a hybrid experience.

Amanda (22:15.034)
Yeah, those are like so recent, I forget that we've done them, but they're amazing things that we've done. Yeah, the knee surgery or the autopsy was amazing. Like I was in the like in right in there because I love seeing all of that. And that is another opportunity that students have that they wouldn't even have in person.

Allyson (22:23.033)
Yeah.

Amanda (22:41.102)
I wasn't even able to do our cadaver lab until I was in college and had passed so many classes. And if that's something you're really interested in, you're not gonna see it in high school. So that's a huge opportunity that you wouldn't be able to do in person. Our virtual labs have come from the point where we don't have enough capacity.

our healthcare field and specifically our long-term care facilities don't have the capacity to take on our nursing assistant students to come on and do their clinical time just because they're understaffed and overworked and we completely understand that. And so in order to help with that, we've worked with CILC to create a virtual lab where we have a nurse instructor in her lab at home and then our students are in their lab at the school and we connect them virtually.

and they're able to then learn from the nurse and practice their skills in real time and get real feedback from her. And we've had amazing results from that because the nurse instructor said, I could probably see the students and what they're doing in their skills better than I could in person. And we, the students that have completed that lab, so far three of them have taken their state certification tests and without even being

Allyson (23:54.233)
and

Amanda (24:03.418)
on site at a long-term care facility passed with 100 % on their skills. So we're gonna continue to replicate it, but we've seen it has proven results and can work.

Allyson (24:07.778)
Yay!

Allyson (24:15.193)
Hmm.

Seth Fleischauer (24:16.225)
Amazing. We love to bring in quotes from previous episodes. This one's actually from Tammy herself. Tammy, could you please introduce the quote you said?

Allyson (24:22.177)
Yeah!

Tami Moehring (24:26.334)
I am happy to. in episode 57, I said something that I think closely connect closely to your work. It's I said you don't need to be in the same room to have presence, connection and deep learning. So Amanda, you, how do you create that sense of presence and connection at High Step, especially in a field like health science or hands on collaboration and empathy are so essential. What intentional strategies help your students feel seen, supported and truly part

of the learning community, even at a distance.

Amanda (25:03.45)
Wow, that's a really good question because empathy is definitely the biggest skill that we teach within our classes because you have to have it if you're going to go into healthcare. I think really giving every student an opportunity to explore and find out what is going to

be best for them and giving them the opportunity and the freedom to be able to look at different opportunities and to have the option of going further with them or stopping or finding another path or opportunity that might work better for them. So to me, I see our classes are optional. They're electives.

They do, I mean, they obviously get high school credit for them and some of them they get college credit, but it's just that freedom to be able to choose a class that I'm really interested in and I want to learn more about it rather than a class I have to take in order to graduate. And so really that opportunity to do something they want, they're interested in and that could lead to, you know, a future career.

or future education or whatever it may look like for them.

Seth Fleischauer (26:29.537)
Awesome. Allison, you want to tee up the golden moment?

Allyson (26:32.031)
yes. So we also love to know what part of the inspiration is all the wonderful success you may have had as you've been telling us about or have had, excuse me. So one thing we always like to ask is about a golden moment. Was there anything that you've witnessed or experienced at your time at High Step or just overall as a virtual educator where you really knew that this work that you were doing was meaningful and tangible and you could see how it made a difference in a student's life?

or maybe another educator's life.

Amanda (27:03.162)
Absolutely. There's one specific that I can think of from one of our first groups. One of the, actually two of the students from our classes came back after college and came back and worked at the nursing home and that they had trained in originally through our program. So they came back to work and most recently

There's another student that is now the administrator of a nursing home that we work with. So seeing the students continue on and then come back to their community and give back to what their community gave to them too.

Allyson (27:47.053)
So beautiful.

Seth Fleischauer (27:47.243)
beautiful. And another question we ask is the title of the podcast. You've created some really powerful experiences in the virtual CTE space. So we have to ask why distance learning? Why is this the right medium for your kind of work?

Amanda (27:48.334)
Thank

Amanda (28:04.494)
To me, it offers the flexibility, it offers equity. just recently we've started translating all of our online courses and our VR and our AI. So it offers more opportunities for diverse groups. It has a broader reach than in-person when someone can't travel. So it limits that transportation barrier. It it limits a lot of barriers.

that otherwise would be there for our students. And it offers a great amount of flexibility to do it at your pace, on your time, and an opportunity to explore when you may not have had that opportunity previously.

Seth Fleischauer (28:53.543)
said. Where can our listeners find your work on the internet?

Amanda (28:58.586)
So our work is on our mnscsc.org website for the South Central Service Cooperative. I also have our own website, which is cnahistep.com. And that showcases our online course, our VR. And I need to update it to add our AI in there, but things are just moving so quickly. I even had a chance to update at all.

Allyson (29:17.305)
you

Seth Fleischauer (29:20.513)
That's a good problem to have, I think. Allison Tamini, last questions for Amanda?

Amanda (29:23.353)
Mm-hmm.

Allyson (29:27.587)
Just thank you so much for sharing your time and your expertise. It's always so, I'm always so grateful to learn from you and hear about all the things that you've been doing and are going to do. So thanks for stopping by and sharing. Also, we want to remind everyone we'll link everything. Anything that you mentioned, we'll also put into the notes so that they have links to you immediately.

Amanda (29:39.617)
Well, thank you.

Amanda (29:47.735)
Awesome. That'd be great.

Seth Fleischauer (29:52.897)
Tammy?

Tami Moehring (29:56.118)
yeah, thank you Amanda so much. Sorry, my internet is going up and down, so I didn't want to interrupt anyone. But it was great to have you on and I learned a great deal. I always learn something new when I connect with you. So thank you.

Amanda (30:11.405)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (30:11.945)
Awesome. well, thank you, Amanda, so much for being here for our listeners. If you've ever wondered whether CTE can thrive online or whether virtual health science programs can truly prepare students for the real world, Amanda Bell's work is a resounding yes. as Alison said, please check the show notes, go to c i l c dot org slash podcast. You can find them there. thank you as always to our editor, Lucas Salazar. If you want to support the podcast, please tell a friend, follow us, leave a rating or a review.

Allyson (30:36.579)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (30:41.835)
It helps other educators find these conversations. And if you're curious about the realities behind the perceptions of distance learning, stay tuned to the voices we highlight on this podcast. These are the innovators and educators proving what's possible in live virtual learning, challenging misconceptions and transforming education along the way. Why distance learning? Because it's awesome and it's here to stay. See you next time.

Allyson (31:04.921)
Bye.

Seth Fleischauer (31:08.737)
And hi to Amanda's kid back there.

Amanda (31:12.667)
Yes, that's one. I have another one that's been yelling mommy for the past 10 minutes.

Allyson (31:13.261)
So sweet. Hi.