Why Distance Learning?

Allyson (00:00.184)
that again.

Seth Fleischauer (00:01.288)
Hello everyone and welcome to Why Distance Learning, the podcast that challenges misconceptions about live virtual education. Hosted by three seasoned distance learning professionals, myself, Tammy and Allison. Hello ladies.

Tami Moehring (00:16.31)
Hello?

Seth Fleischauer (00:17.51)
We bring you real stories, expert insights, and research-backed strategies that uncover the true impact of distance learning in today's world. And today we're going to explore a question that's at the heart of Mar- see, sometimes you got to start over.

Allyson (00:31.96)
We appreciate you, Lucas.

Seth Fleischauer (00:37.212)
Today we explore a question that it's at the heart of modern education. How can distance learning serve students with vastly different needs, especially those often overlooked in traditional classrooms, whether it's asynchronous lessons, live interventions, or emerging AI tools. The answer might not lie in choosing one method, but in weaving them all together. And that's exactly what our guest, Wiggins does. Lori, welcome to the program.

Lori Wiggins (01:02.853)
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm excited.

Seth Fleischauer (01:05.33)
So you're a long time leader in virtual education. You've been working at the intersection of tech, teaching, and human connection since I think 2008. And you're now serving students in a hybrid model, which we'd to hear more about. And really you're reimagining this flexible student-centered instruction, what it can look like in a post-pandemic era. So one of the themes that we're going to dive into is this myth that

Allyson (01:18.563)
Yes.

Seth Fleischauer (01:32.294)
distance learning can offer the nuance and responsiveness that students need, right? How do we use this medium to meet learners where they are, especially those struggling with anxiety, disabilities, academic gaps? Can hybrid and virtual models deliver on equity, engagement, and excellence? We're going to find out today. But first, Tammy, please introduce our guest.

Tami Moehring (01:53.664)
I'd be happy to. Dr. Lori Wiggins is the principal of Pasco E School in Pasco County, Florida. In her 35 years within education, she has served as a teacher, professional developer, supervisor of curriculum and instruction, and school-based administrator for virtual and brick-and-mortar schools. She has a passion for successful online learning. Her doctorate focused on the development of virtual instructors and online instructional best practices.

So with that in mind, Lori, I'm gonna kick us off with our very first question for you, which is, so you've been doing this since 2008. What first drew you to distance learning and how has your perspective evolved in this post pandemic era?

Allyson (02:41.23)
Ciao!

Lori Wiggins (02:43.003)
So I kind of fell into virtual instruction because as I was a supervisor in curriculum instruction at the district office, we got a legislation that says you must have a virtual school in every school district. So there you are. We had to put it into place in six months. So like in all things in virtual, you just make things happen. And that's the kind of the way that it happened. But we started off with 15 teachers. We offered electives. And now we've grown into a K-12 school.

I have over 858 full-time students that are completely virtual. Then I also have 7,000 students across our county that have shared where they take one, two, three, or four classes. In addition to, we also serve students across the state because we offer a course that maybe another district virtual program doesn't have. So we have grown...

the trajectory just we just kept growing and when the pandemic had I actually was not in virtual I stepped away because I thought I needed to see the brick and mortar side and so I was a principal and I became a principal six months before the pandemic and here I was in virtual again taking my brick and mortar teachers trying to teach them how to do virtual on the fly so I was grateful to have my experience to do that and yeah.

Tami Moehring (03:53.002)
You

Tami Moehring (03:57.122)
you

Seth Fleischauer (04:07.088)
Yeah, how lucky were your teachers, right?

Allyson (04:08.295)
Yes, and your esteem, yes.

Tami Moehring (04:09.184)
I'm not kidding.

Lori Wiggins (04:10.787)
Yes, so then did that for a few years post pandemic. We're really, you per our topic today as far as how are we responsive, everybody had to be responsive as far as the gap of learning post pandemic. coming back to Pascoe School, coming back home was then like, okay, how do we take all this learning and then apply it? Because we have learners that have gaps for a variety of reasons, whether you blame it on the pandemic or other reasons.

we have to meet those needs no matter what pathways that our students take.

Allyson (04:46.072)
my gosh, so excited. mean, how wonderful does the universe place you in certain situations and gets you to a team where you can really share your expertise and create a model and a framework. And it's interesting. I wonder just because there is this conversation that we have here a lot between the asynchronous and the synchronous experience that

you know, together they can become a really comprehensive opportunity of learning. And in some cases the live works better and other cases the asynchronous works better. And I wonder how do you find a way of balancing that when it's a self-directed course versus when you know the live lesson actually comes into play, especially hearing that you have a virtue.

over 800 that are virtual, you have thousands that you're reaching outside of your county. How do you create the framework that you think addresses the needs of the variety of individuals that you serve?

Lori Wiggins (05:47.355)
So it really comes back to how are we performing? And one of the things that we continually look at is like what data or metrics should we be utilizing in order to say how are we doing? So as we started our program in 2008, that was six through 12, and then our elementary came aboard 2012. And so as those programs grew, initially students came to us because they were looking for more

Allyson (05:50.306)
Hmm.

Lori Wiggins (06:17.179)
more extension or more enrichment kinds of opportunities. That has evolved over time where we have now learners who are not feeling they're being successful in the brick and mortar, so they're coming to us. So our students are changing and evolving as for reasons for coming to virtual. And as a result of that, we're having to look at what are the needs and then what are based on what we're offering, is it working or not working? And then looking into what are some problem solution oriented.

kinds of conversations and develop some new models. And hence right now, the model that we have for our full-time students is that they're online, they have the prescribed curriculum that they go through, we have supplemental things that are kind of AI programs, adaptive programs, or whatever, if they're needing a little bit more. And then we have face-to-face sessions where they come in one day a month so that we can have them.

really see how they're responding because of that dynamic of interaction that's happening. It's like, now I see how you're responding with the concepts that we presented. And then we also have the face-to-face live lessons that changes beyond whether they're elementary five days a week to middle school, maybe one or two days a week, and then high school, we have it periodic based on the concept or content. And with the...

the middle school, like right now we're looking at and evaluating what else do we need to do. So it's not just a one size fits all one model. We also look at what is their data telling us and then what do we need to supplement or support.

Seth Fleischauer (07:51.432)
I love how both comprehensive and flexible that is. All these different things that you're doing based on all these different variables. You started off by saying we're defining our success by what we're measuring. What are the things that you're measuring? it just the standards that the state is giving you? Are there special considerations that you have for the virtual environment? What are those key metrics for you?

Allyson (07:56.206)
Yes! Love it!

Lori Wiggins (07:56.485)
Mm-hmm.

Lori Wiggins (08:21.081)
And that's a great question. We're a public school, so we do have to respond to the state standards and the metrics that that's provided to us. We also have the engagement in virtual, the pacing, the regular contact, all of those kinds of things as part of it too, because it could easily be saying the students is not really attending, but then also what are the underlying...

pinnings that's happening as far as why aren't they attending and having to dig a little bit deeper. So we look at academics, how are they performing on statewide assessments, how are they performing on intermittent benchmark assessments that we're doing. We're also looking at our connectivity, our communications and try to look at the 360 view of a child.

Seth Fleischauer (09:12.008)
And so it's for any given kid are you like painting a picture with this data and then going in and and like trying to connect the dots and then identifying whether or not there are gaps based on both qualitative data and quantitative data are there certain like trigger points where you're starting to intervene with students like how do you decide what the gaps are that need to be filled?

Lori Wiggins (09:39.547)
So that's a great question given the diversity of students that we serve because of we, I actually have 12 different programs underneath my school. And so I serve students who are hospital homebound. I serve students who are here in lieu of expulsion. I serve students who are choosing courses. And so in each of those programs, there are nuances to the metrics that we look at because of the reason why they're here.

Allyson (09:48.823)
Tami Moehring (09:49.461)
and

Lori Wiggins (10:08.931)
So some of those programs are more individualized. I also have students who are on access points. So they're not going for general education standards. They're going on the alternative standards. So depending on why they're coming to my program, it kind of narrows down to the individualization that has to happen. But overall for the school, we're looking at the three tiers of instruction. So tier one, what does everybody get? And then tier two is,

looking at benchmarks, academic benchmarks to see what we need to redirect, recheck, reteach, revisit, those kinds of things. And then when we get to that tier three, then it is very individualized where we're looking at more more metrics or points of data to kind of tell the story of an individual child.

Allyson (10:56.398)
And you mentioned earlier about AI being a part of that process. Is that something that is just in the, I wonder how are you using AI? Because it can be used in so many different ways from the idea of the gaps to lesson planning. So I wonder just thinking about your students and then also the wonderful team that you have to, that you cultivate and the culture that you cultivate with them. How does AI play into

Lori Wiggins (11:08.314)
Mm-hmm.

Allyson (11:24.642)
the metrics in which you're assessing for your students and creating that personalized experience and supporting your teachers. And I wonder if that's a larger question, which is how does AI impact really the future of virtual learning?

Lori Wiggins (11:28.709)
Mm-hmm.

Lori Wiggins (11:42.971)
Well, given the stage of AI in our society right now, like we have lots of questions, right? So, right. So in one way that we're utilizing within our system is as a teacher tool. So one way is having some tools that kind of helps us define academic goals, behavioral goals, those kinds of things with students, right? So it's like.

Allyson (11:47.392)
Yeah. Yeah. Growth is coming.

Seth Fleischauer (11:49.67)
Mm-hmm

Lori Wiggins (12:09.039)
What are the standards? What's the data? What's the best way to align the dose? Because it's very complex and complicated. So it takes that burden off so we can focus on doing the intervention piece of it. So it's more like teacher tools that we're kind of utilizing in that regards. Then whether you say AI or adaptive, then we use some supplementary adaptive programs where it's going to change based on students' responses, based on what that program is designed to.

know, intervene for a particular student or group of students.

Seth Fleischauer (12:43.248)
Yeah, and I remember talking to you before, because we know each other, we presented at DLAC together. I was so impressed with the way that you represented your work there. It's just like, like, I feel like every question I ask you, it just exposes yet another layer of deep thinking that you've done. But one of the things that you talked about was that, like, you can, in kind of circling back to this, the first question that Allison asked was like using synchronous time as like a safety net when students fall through the

Lori Wiggins (12:47.515)
Yeah.

Allyson (12:55.768)
Yeah.

Tami Moehring (12:56.994)
you

Lori Wiggins (12:57.646)
you

Seth Fleischauer (13:11.784)
of asynchronous learning. And we just heard about like one of those gap filling, is AI driven or adaptive software, which can help fill some academic gaps. But how do you use synchronous time as a safety net? What does that mean for you?

Lori Wiggins (13:28.443)
So those are those face-to-face opportunities, whether if it's through live lessons or through the face-to-face they're coming on our campus. And so those are ways that we can intervene more directly. the programs are virtual, so they can access it. We schedule you need to do these set of lessons. then based on how they're progressing, because they're going to

change based on student responses. that's a level of intervention for that. It's kind of like put them into this program, see how they do. we are also looking on what is that direct human connection in order to have some direct instruction and from that direct instruction, how does students respond and let me collect that information in the moment and then kind of intervene and pivot as needed.

based on the student's response within the face-to-face sessions. I hope that addressed your question.

Seth Fleischauer (14:30.8)
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm actually going to bring in a little bit of research here that that Allison brought into our outline. Thank you, Allison. So I want to read this post pandemic hybrid models are asking educators to shift their lens from what works best to what works best for whom research from the Center on Reinventing Public Education in 2023 stresses that flexibility and responsiveness must be woven into system design, not added after the fact.

Allyson (14:37.038)
I love some research.

Lori Wiggins (14:39.323)
you

Seth Fleischauer (15:00.484)
And your emphasis on choosing methodology based on student needs, not convenience, aligns with this national call to rebuild learning systems that prioritize, prioritize personalization, equity and engagement. And I'm just wondering how the heck you do that. Cause cause you, I mean, you're describing like, like I hear you talk about it and I hear how deeply you've, in this thinking is ingrained in you, right? Of like, you know, and I can see you like,

looking at the information of any given student and having that like analytical mind of like, okay, well, this is, see this and this and this, and that paints this picture of like, this is what this student needs. I can see that from you. What I'm wondering is how do you find other people to do that when you're not there? Cause you can't possibly do that for 850 kids, let alone the thousands that come in from, from outside, you know, other kids from within your district, from outside the district.

How do you systematize this? How do you make this so that this is an approach that everyone can take?

Lori Wiggins (16:05.221)
So definitely it's a team, but then you have to build the capacity within the team, right? And then having various teams do different portions of it. So one of the things that we have to do is we have to speak in one voice. That's how do we provide instruction? What is it that we have to offer? And then look to see, you what are the supports that are necessary? And I have to advocate for supports, right? Because it's kind of like, okay, this takes...

special education teachers, takes a speech pathologist, this takes a school social worker. It takes all of these kinds of personnel. When we started in the early days, we didn't have those. We had to tap into our sister schools that were brick and mortar to say, I need this person or this person help. Because of our growth, we've been able to get those allocations to kind of help support this large school that we have.

Tami Moehring (16:54.754)
you

Lori Wiggins (16:59.865)
But then now that we have the team, then we have to build a roadmap as far as how do we move students in from tier one to tier two to tier three or back again, because that's the goal, right? Not to be stuck in those tiers, but to be there at the tier one level. And then what is the, what's the criteria that gets them from tier one to tier two? Do we all agree with that criteria? What's the criteria from tier two to tier three? What's going to be the criteria to get them back?

because sometimes we see progress, but it's progress that is parallel to what the growth of everyone else is doing, but it's not closing the gap. So that's that piece about making sure that we all have this consensus as to where are people at and where do we need them to be and what is the metrics we're going to measure to get that. Then it is also looking at the resource map, like what are our resources that we utilize for

children that have comprehension difficulties. What do we do when children have phonemic awareness or phonics issues? What do we do if they have fluency issues in the areas of reading? What do we do if they have, you know, calculation problems versus understanding how to break down word problems? So based on what are some characteristics that are indicators of learning gaps,

having kind of a resources of map of what we have accessible to, then we can go ahead and have a system that we can plug the students in. So we have to do the roadmap first. The other piece of it is, and then looking at, okay, we have a profile of students, groups of students, trends. So it's not always individual, it might be a group of students. An example of that is when we looked at our math data, we had a pivot mid-year and say, what we're doing is not working.

So we had a pivot mid-year, we came together as consensus and say, what do we need to do? And then we implemented those live lessons to kind of supplement, to kind of close the gap of what we needed to do and then kind of decide where do we want to go ahead and exit out that they don't need that anymore. And so we have to start with what is the need? Then we have to look at based on the need, what was the criteria or what's the description of that need?

Lori Wiggins (19:16.611)
And then we have to look at, what is the action plan? Who, what, when, where all of the logistics is going to be there? What is the frequency? What's the duration that we're going to do this? And we measure it again. So that's that piece of continually, not just put a plan in place and then say, okay, I'm good. We have to kind of continually monitor to make sure that we're closing the gap. If we're closing the gap, great, we're moving on. If we're not, what else do we need to do? And that's the...

type of thinking that that's not me. That's the team's way of work that you cultivate and you build that capacity among the whole school as the way that we approach it.

Allyson (19:57.78)
my goodness, you are such a leader. I loved all of your words so much, especially the word consensus, not just because I'm from Pennsylvania and yay, William Penn, the idea and Quakerism, but the idea of that you're everything you said really just made it feel like this is everything is a team effort, that all voices are heard that.

Seth Fleischauer (20:00.424)
you

Lori Wiggins (20:08.837)
Mm-hmm.

Lori Wiggins (20:19.515)
Mm-hmm.

Allyson (20:21.42)
And not only all voices are heard, but they're all uniquely seen, these students. So inevitably those students are being seen in the voices that are being shared. So what a wonderful culture that you're cultivating. mean, what, I just think it's so great to think about plans being flexible, that you can be a methodical jumper into a number of different situations. Like we just don't want to hit the rocks. Like we know there's no rocks there, but let's jump in.

Lori Wiggins (20:26.256)
Mm-hmm.

Lori Wiggins (20:43.481)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yep. Yep.

Seth Fleischauer (20:43.666)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (20:50.568)
Yeah, I want to send my kid to your school. Let's move on to a segment that we do every time we bring in a clip from a previous episode. This is a quote that we're actually bringing in from a woman that you know, Brianna Wall. Tammy, could you please introduce the quote?

Lori Wiggins (20:55.055)
They're welcome.

Tami Moehring (21:12.33)
Yeah, Brianna Wall said online learning doesn't erase the need for human connection. It amplifies it. How am I spending time getting to know the people that I serve and once I know them, how do I show them that I know them? One student might need me to check in with them privately after class. Another may not want to be called out at all. The way we respond to them is what makes the difference.

So how do you approach the human connection in your work with distance learning? Do you have a story that illustrates how you've personalized connection in a virtual environment?

Lori Wiggins (21:47.717)
Well, social presence is ultimately has to be happening in the virtual realm. You can't survive without it. And so we get the opportunity to work with students one on one because they're virtual. And the aspect of the way that we have them work through their courses and then we do the discussion based assessments along the way. So that's that one on one assessment. Let's check and see how you're doing.

We don't do that methodically. We start off with first, the first time that I'm going to, you're going to be in my course, so I'm going to introduce who I am. Let's do a phone call. Let's get to know each other. And it is about, so what's going on in your life? What are the things that you like? What are the things that you want to accomplish as you take my course? So we build that rapport right off the bat. And we make sure that we stay that connection on the social presence.

as we're also dealing with the teaching presence, we're looking at ways to make sure that we're making those social connections. So when I was kind of thinking about that human factor, it's like that either makes or breaks the virtual environment because if you do not draw them in, they're not gonna show up.

And I get the opportunity to evaluate teachers and I get to see what they're doing. And one of the things is in my evaluations, I get to listen in on those discussion based assessment phone calls. And what's really interesting is that as the teachers are beginning those phone calls, of course students are nervous just by the terms of discussion based assessments. They're nervous, right? So.

Allyson (23:29.782)
Yeah.

Lori Wiggins (23:32.557)
the teachers start off with is like, you know, hey, Johnny, how are you doing? I see you're a senior. my goodness. this is an exciting time of the year right now. And just kind of getting into, hey, that social presence and kind of talking about, so how is your senior year going? What's happening? What's going on? Are you still working at Chick-fil-A? Are you still doing this? You know, those kinds of things. And it's like, okay, great. Well, so good to catch up with you.

Allyson (23:54.283)
Yes.

Lori Wiggins (23:59.771)
we're just going to have a conversation about and you just ease in into the questions that are needing to be and it's conversational. So it is like by the end they're like, that was an assessment? Yeah, that was an assessment. You did great. Good job. And then also the written feedback is kind of sandwiched in with checking in with you, being positive, have that warm demeanor.

Allyson (24:11.79)
You

Lori Wiggins (24:24.429)
and then kind of addressing as far as you really did well in this area and this area and here's some things you may want to revisit and then closing out with you know hey reach out to me I'm here I'm available and so making sure that that person knows that there's a person on the other end it's not a robot so

Allyson (24:41.002)
Yeah. And what a way to prepare them for work life experiences for and assessments that come up when you are in a professional world. I will say that I was never one that was good with being called out or written assessments coming home or anything like that. And to this day, if I have an annual review, am like, I will write it out all the time because you're just so afraid of that. So, or at least that was.

Seth Fleischauer (24:41.351)
Yeah.

Lori Wiggins (24:50.885)
Mm-hmm.

Lori Wiggins (24:54.341)
You

Lori Wiggins (25:03.375)
Yeah. Yeah.

Allyson (25:06.892)
my experience. it's nice to hear that you're intrinsically getting them ready for what they may face in their career and college pathways.

Lori Wiggins (25:08.304)
Mm-hmm.

Lori Wiggins (25:16.505)
Right, yeah, almost every industry that you you're talking to somebody on the phone about whatever you're having to deal with online to get your driver's license or get your anything else. It's like they're saying yes exactly. So there's a lot of things that's like those real life of here. You're doing it in the virtual realm. How do you make friends real quickly in those environments right and so and you connect with that human very quickly and then be able to get the task or the information that you need.

Allyson (25:27.126)
Real ID.

Allyson (25:35.726)
Mm.

Seth Fleischauer (25:45.244)
Yeah. Allison, can you tee up the golden moment?

Allyson (25:48.94)
yes, well we always love to know all about what, you know, all about your inspiration and everything that you have shared with us. We're so appreciative, but we always do like to ask about a golden moment. Is there one time, one experience, you might have many, but one that stands out as you can really see that the work that you're doing has all come together and you can see it working for the bigger purpose, what we call a golden moment.

Lori Wiggins (26:18.043)
And there's so many. I think for me, the reason I came back to Pasco eSchool is because there are possible solutions that sometimes in the brick and mortar, you're bound by a schedule, you're bound by the bell. There's so many like constraints in that regards. And so coming back to the virtual realm, it is that looking within those possibilities. so thinking about

Allyson (26:19.714)
Yeah.

Lori Wiggins (26:47.575)
in several instances, but one particularly of a student that I actually was when our first first grade class that we had. He's coming up and it's going to be our outstanding senior for this year. So it was kind of like I saw you in elementary and he's been in virtual his life. And the thing is, is that how we approached his needs.

And in various ways and then to see that happen not only for elementary but then middle and then see him fruition to high school and he is doing amazing things that already he's already started his career outside of school because he's had that flexibility to actually engage in some of Interests and things that he's doing and he now he's actually teaching other children in in what he's doing like that. So we've been able to kind of

Customize a little bit so to speak where it looks like it's customized based on the system that we put them in That we're able to meet those needs and we were able to meet the family needs we were able to meet as far as his flexible Lifestyle because he needed things because of outside interest that he was doing in competitive sports But also for his learning needs it's just it was beautiful. So we just had a

a signing day as far as what they're planning to do for their careers. We actually had them come in, have them formally sign, and then get a stole for the accord for their senior graduation. And so that just happened actually last night. So it was great to see that fruition under there. So that's one of a lot of golden moments. And that's why I'm excited to do the job that I do.

Allyson (28:25.428)
congratulations!

Seth Fleischauer (28:36.36)
Well, you've you've talked a lot today about the how right a real deep dive into the how how to do this successfully Underlying a lot of that is the why but we love to ask this question. It's the title of the podcast For you Laurie Wiggins why distance learning?

Lori Wiggins (28:56.731)
And what I spoke to earlier, is the, it's still a space where we can look at a wide range of possibilities that I have not found in other spaces. So why virtual is that it is not a one size fits all. It is really looking to see what can we bring to fruition? What can we invent?

innovate or what can we stretch our own thinking and to create a space for kids to come and learn that meets needs for a variety of reasons. That's what I thrive on and as opposed to well this is all that we can do at this point in time because this is all the resources we have or that especially in this time where it feels like there's a lot of constraints.

I have a space that I get to work in and say, let's consider some solutions and what ways can we bring it about.

Allyson (29:57.91)
Yes, my gosh, that just made me so excited. I was like, yes, the solutions.

Seth Fleischauer (29:58.404)
Lori Wiggins (30:00.699)
That's why I'm smiling.

Seth Fleischauer (30:02.312)
Don't hear a lot of those in education these days.

Allyson (30:05.262)
Gotta find the silver lining. I know, gotta find the silver lining. I'm excited. Yay.

Lori Wiggins (30:11.759)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (30:13.672)
Tammy Allison, any last questions for Lori before we let her go?

Allyson (30:18.232)
I am just so grateful. Thank you. So this is such an inspiring conversation. All of the work you're doing just, and also all of the ways that you're just thinking about your students, your team. I'm just so grateful to learn from you. So thank you so much. And I look forward to learning from you more in the future, I hope.

Lori Wiggins (30:35.183)
you. If you're in the Tampa Bay area, come and visit.

Allyson (30:39.338)
Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!

Tami Moehring (30:40.418)
I will for sure. mean, virtually you sound amazing. I can't believe, can't wait to meet you in person. You'll even top it up.

Lori Wiggins (30:50.171)
Well, thank you for having me.

Seth Fleischauer (30:50.244)
Awesome. thank you so much for being here. For our listeners, if you want to check the show notes for anything mentioned here today, you can go to cilc.org slash podcast. All of our other episodes are also there. Thank you as always to our editor, Lucas Salazar. If you'd like to support the podcast, please rate it, leave a review, follow us, a friend. And if you're curious about the realities behind the perceptions of distance learning, stay tuned to the voices we highlight here on this podcast.

Allyson (31:06.392)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (31:18.566)
These are the innovators and educators proving what's possible in live virtual learning, challenging misconceptions, and transforming education along the way. Why distance learning? Because it's evolving, impactful, and here to stay. See you next time.

Allyson (31:31.502)
Bye.