Why Distance Learning?

Seth Fleischauer (00:00.819)
Hello everyone and welcome to why distance learning the podcast that delves into the transformative power of live virtual learning hosted by three seasoned distance learning professionals, myself, Alison and Tammy. Hello ladies. we bring you interviews with industry experts as we challenge common misconceptions and explore the true impact of distance learning in today's world. we are doing something a little bit different with the podcast now because we are

Allyson (00:13.424)
Hi!

Tami Moehring (00:15.02)
Hello.

Seth Fleischauer (00:28.101)
addressing these misconceptions directly. The perception that we are directly addressing today is that distance learning is not for marginalized or remote communities. We are going to tease out the extent to which that is true and not true with today's guest, who is Dr. Brianna Wall. Dr. Brianna Wall, welcome to the podcast.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (00:47.115)
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Seth Fleischauer (00:50.835)
Tammy, could you please introduce Brianna?

Tami Moehring (00:54.988)
I am happy to Dr. Brianna Seawall, founder and CEO of Collaborative Ed Solutions, has over a decade of experience in educational leadership and special education, a John Hopkins University teaching associate, and a mother of two. She emphasizes evidence-based, customized solutions for empowering educators. Guided by her faith in the philosophy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., she is dedicated to nurturing educational communities and will release her book on supporting

Allyson (01:10.182)
Yay.

Tami Moehring (01:25.07)
special educators in 2025, which is this year. It's so exciting.

Allyson (01:28.73)
Yay!

Bre (Dr. Wall) (01:30.897)
Thank you so much.

Tami Moehring (01:31.982)
So kind of to start us off with, can you share a bit more about what led you to focus on educational leadership in special education?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (01:42.449)
Oh, indeed. You know, it goes back to philosophies of Martin Luther King. And one of the things that he said that resonates with me most is, what are we doing for others? And so this focus, I was definitely led into this field. It was God sent, both special education. That's where I started, in the trenches as a practicing teacher. And then my heart just grew for the educational leadership aspect of it.

And I had a tug on my heart and passion in terms of general and special education and merging those two, which sometimes can be separate fields into one to just better serve all students. And I feel like you need sort of a balance of both, like at least that serves my passion well. So I consider myself a partner of leaders and an advocate for teachers. And that's sort of where I blend those two.

Seth Fleischauer (02:38.419)
Well, I love that. And I appreciate you bringing your expertise and perspective here to the podcast today. I'm also very excited to present with you at DLAC coming up in February, in late February, we will be talking about building culture at virtual schools. So excited to meet you in person there.

Allyson (02:53.584)
you

Seth Fleischauer (03:00.283)
Now, again, we want to dive into this perception that some people developed on the other side of the pandemic that distance learning isn't for marginalized remote communities. And there is some evidence that it can exacerbate some inequalities due to limited text access and conducive learning spaces, particularly for students of color and of lower socioeconomic status. But there's also cases where digital learning has provided marginalized students

with opportunities they wouldn't otherwise have. This is especially true for students with disabilities, people for whom I think we had Laura Loy on the podcast once who said, you know, for some people, it's just not a good decision to go to school today. And so there are, you know, providing opportunities for people who, for whom a brick and mortar experience is just not gonna work. I'm wondering from your experience in educational leadership and with special education,

Allyson (03:43.708)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (03:59.763)
In terms of building a culture in a virtual school environment, what are some of the unique emotional and social challenges that these populations have and how can you overcome them in a virtual environment?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (04:18.129)
Such an important question. And so I should note too, the first half of my career was brick and mortar and the latter half was online schools. And I really started to value both of the experience early on because once I went into online, it was different, right? And so I became very interested in how do we balance the playing field, really create accessibility.

for all learners because when we talk about, yes, it can be beneficial for everyone in terms of online learning, absolutely. However, when we are meeting the needs of everyone, we need to do different things. And so that applies with culture. When we think about culture in the classroom and outside of the classroom, we have to consider who are we serving? Like, you know, some of these questions that I really like, my guiding questions that I have are really...

fundamental in nature. So what do they need? In order to know what they need, we have to know who they are. And we cannot begin to sort of apply a one size fits all. So one student or teacher's emotional needs may not be the same as the other, regardless of their ethnic or racial background, regardless of some of their cultural practices. And so I think it's really important, Seth, early on to get to know your people.

the people that you're serving and right, that's gonna change each school year. It's gonna shift a little bit. And so, and sort of like having this little tool of, know, this basket of strategies that we have and anytime we get someone new or we get a full new class, we need to go back to the basics and say, how am I spending time getting to know the people that I serve, students or teachers alike? And then now that I know them, how do I, this might seem a little different, but how do I show them that I know them in the work I'm doing?

So how am I tying in their interests? How am I tying in maybe the traumas that I know they've experienced into the work that I'm doing? Does it mean that, you know, I'm going to make sure after class that in the online platform that you're using, I'm gonna hold back Jose for a moment because I know what he's going through and he just really appreciates when, excuse me, he just really appreciates when I have some one-on-one time with him. That might work for him. There's other students.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (06:38.789)
that might think, part of how I work is like, don't call me out. I don't want to talk about it. Okay, so I might send an email. He doesn't want to talk. Well, I'm going to send a message to show that I care. Or I know that so-and-so really loves baseball. And when their father passed away last year, that's something that he's really struggling to do. That's where you bring in that emotional balance. How can I make that fun again for him? How can I delicately touch that? And some of these things,

Sometimes I think it misunderstood as being separate from academics when really, I mean, there's so many researchers, even Dr. Hardiman being one of them, educational and psychologists who have talked about the importance of the emotional climate being number one. There's a book called Brain Targeted Teaching and there's a second edition coming out as well. And I've really appreciated it because it just says like before anything.

The first thing is the emotional climate. And other researchers outside of Dr. Hardeman, who published work in similar areas, have said, you know, we may have a disagreement about like the fifth or sixth target, maybe, you know, conceptual learning comes before like instructional whatever pedagogy, but here's what we do agree on, and it's the emotional climate. So what are we doing to sort of get back to the foundation and basics of human people, human connections, and let me build that before I put anything else.

on top of that. So does that answer your question, Seth? I kind of went around to admit.

Seth Fleischauer (08:07.931)
Yeah, I think so. mean, to be honest, it sounds like it sounds like good teaching, right? It's like like good teachers should get to know their students and they should adapt their approach to those students based on what they get to know. They I love that you said you show them that I know them. I love that. I'm wondering, like, do you see it then that there is no difference in the approach that you're taking with special ed students?

in a virtual setting like it is it is the same approach which is a personalized approach like is that is that what you're saying?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (08:43.781)
What do mean? Yes, in a sense, but then I'll add to it. So the approach is the same. Here's where it gets different, team, is what you have to do in response to it. So whatever you learn about them, and that's where we get the term like specialized, right, is because their needs do not look the same as general, as the general population, just using those terms there.

And so it's how we then respond. So there are students that may need devices at home, you know, for those students who are neurodivergent, just their differences, right? And it's our system. So I like to say disabled sometimes, even though that word can make people cringe a little bit. There's people who live in the disability community, the terms are different. Some people prefer disabled, some people turn have a disability.

And so when I say disabled, I'm doing it for this reason. It's our systems that disable our students oftentimes. It's our practices, our mindsets, the position of our hearts that can be disabling to them. So if we take that same basic fundamental approach of getting to know the youth and their families, it's more about how we respond and that's where we start to see some of those differences come up. So again, different tools that they need. What their home environment.

looks like is going to be different sometimes culturally, right? Like there could be a culture where more people live at home with them. It might be a little crowded in the house. So once you learn that about them, okay, so for Johnny, this first grader, I know it's a little crowded. know sometimes he gets distracted, but Johnny, remember, we're going to get in our spaceship. When we get in class, are we all in our spaceships? You know, so just going straight to an example, it's like there, it's...

Again, it's about now that I know this about him, what can I do? There may be other students who are in a nicely organized desk. They've got a quiet room, 700 square feet all to their cell. It could look different, but the way I'm going to address Johnny could also be beneficial for everyone. Getting in a spaceship might be a little cool for some of the first graders, but we know that it's targeting Johnny's needs. And so that's where I sort of bring it together. And I think one thing I found that some of the educators I've partnered with

Bre (Dr. Wall) (11:05.987)
appreciate about bringing it back to basics, but also acknowledging and understanding the differences that come out of that, is just that it unifies us. Same sort of tool belt, okay, but once I know more, I'm going to reach on a different end. I'm going to grab something from there. And think about the general population as you're really doing the same thing for them. There's sort of a historical mindset and set of practices that were built to say,

different, different, different. And that's where that separatism really came in. And so if we just think of them as we're all children, we start to see things and really go about things a little more in unity and understanding that the differences isn't really because it's like a no-no or something, you know, bad. It's more of like how we respond to it. So, yeah.

Allyson (11:59.154)
Yes, when you say get in the in the in your spaceship, I just thought of like little Einstein's that just came into my mind like, yes, everybody wants to sing along and do that. How fun and it really brings it back to that idea that you were talking about the emotional climate that that it's so important to be able to build that and then model that and then it creates that.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (12:10.105)
Yes!

Allyson (12:20.466)
culture within the learning group, which is so, so exciting. And they do call for a lot of that idea of the emotional climate being important in a classroom. And with your experience with virtual and in-person, and also you talking about your, I love how you say the educators that you get to partner with and the leaders that you get to partner with. I wonder how do you work with them to build that emotional climate and have that unified culture

And how has that kind of been different when it's an in-person experience versus that virtual online experience since as some people will say that sometimes can be the challenge in the virtual, that sense of belonging or cultivating that sense of belonging.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (13:05.273)
Yes.

Absolutely. know, Allison, I'd agree that it's a challenge sometimes. you know, sometimes the answer for a problem isn't that like we erase the problem. You know, it still can be a challenge. Like the fact is that innately it does something for us to be in person as human creatures, right? Human beings. And so that online, just takes away a physical connection. And so again,

Allyson (13:12.242)
It's okay.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (13:36.577)
with our students, the way we respond to them might be different. This is one of those areas where the school setting in and of itself requires some differences. But here's what I love. We have online learning systems. We have different video conferencing platforms. We still have the good old phone system that we can get on. Now we have text messaging. We have all these tools. And think of even just...

Allyson (13:55.984)
Yes.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (14:02.747)
Some of the more popular platforms now with social media that are being leveraged, we're doing a whole lot online. So I'd say it's a great time to be leveraging online school experiences. And again, there are students who in person might have challenges with social interaction, with interaction in general. So let's not forget that too, right? And so those challenges for some persist in an online environment.

Allyson (14:21.809)
Mm-hmm.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (14:28.955)
for others alleviate anxiety and stress and help cultivate social connection. So all those things, I just see such a similarity in terms of like challenges that exist all around. And so then it's just, well, how are we going to respond to those? And I was very fortunate in one of the online cluster of schools that I served, that I was able to lead what was called like a connections initiative. And so...

It was just to be intentional with how we connect. So goes back to this cultural aspect of what do we do? How do we build that online? And again, you always have to consider everyone. I never, ever stumbled upon a group of folks I was working with where it was just one size fits all. It might be something that's like, this works for most people. If I message them on Skype once a day, which was, that was one of them for the teachers, and just say something good about their day. I kid you not, I created in OneNote a tab.

Allyson (15:13.413)
Right.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (15:25.285)
that said smiles, where I would like capture screenshots. So if you ever sent me this now, you know, I screenshot it, like Skype message responses that I would get from people I serve, like teachers and some of the coordinators when I would do these intentional connections. And so just, you know, imagining, and we brought these practices into the classroom.

So again, it Jose that needs to stay after? Is it Susie that actually wants to be acknowledged in front of the class? Like that may be a thing too. How do we cultivate that in a classroom environment? And then how are we creating opportunities for them to connect? That's such an important part of fostering a sense of belonging. Is there a way, since we're not in person, that we can facilitate sharing contact information?

How can we do that? Because I know there's a lot of censoring and confidentiality in the online learning environment. So how can we allow for students to have some social interaction and have opportunities to safely do that? We have to intentionally create the space. So whatever it is that we're struggling with, if it's getting students to class, which is sometimes common in the online learning environment, what do I know about the student that could be causing the barrier?

And then how can I intentionally invest time? It goes back to these foundational tools. And here's what I found and why I go back to the foundation is I found in interactions and studies that those aren't always being used. That sometimes our circumstance kind of takes over and we forget that, I actually have a tool for that. Back to basics. I might actually, I'm a little frustrated.

that so-and-so isn't coming to my closet. Man, they've been really chronically absent. Parents never answer the phone. Okay, we know that, but what can we do? Have we tried sending mail? Is there a way we could do an in-person check? Have we tried saying something different in our messaging that might capture their attention? Have we tried a video?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (17:23.601)
sending a video, making sure we're saying something positive and not just sending a letter saying you've missed such and such days. Let's just go back, take a moment, and be intentional about how we move forward and bring those things into the classroom.

Seth Fleischauer (17:38.323)
I really liked the way you say that, intentionality piece. It is true that we oftentimes are looking forward so much we forget to look down at our tool belt and remember all the things that are in there. And you've talked about this tool belt several times here and it sounds like, this makes sense, that there's a certain foundational teacher tool belt, right? And then as you develop expertise, maybe you have like a little

Allyson (17:50.652)
No.

Seth Fleischauer (18:07.453)
different shaped hammer that you're able to use because like of your years in the classroom, you realize like some of the nails prefer a tiny hammer. and I'm wondering though, I want to tease this out a little bit because like, you know, you're talking about like, you know, you can email, you can, you can send a video, right? Like, and I'm, and I'm struggling to find the things like which of these things apply to the virtual school space and they don't actually apply to brick and mortar. And it

Allyson (18:15.26)
you

Bre (Dr. Wall) (18:17.083)
That's good.

Allyson (18:19.27)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (18:36.627)
feels like that line between IRL and digital life is just fuzzy as heck right now. And there aren't that many fundamental differences between how we approach things in the online setting versus how we approach things in the brick and mortar setting. As long as you're doing it right, it is based on relationships. It's based on getting to know them and bringing intentionality to that relationship. Would you say that that's kind of where you're coming from?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (19:02.001)
Absolutely. Yes, yes, yes and yes. And I've challenged myself on this. Like, am I seeing it differently? Because sometimes, you know, I'll be serving some educators that there were a lot of challenges like in my tenure in education when we'd have, excuse me, in my tenure when I led online learning environments, some of the new teachers or even veteran teachers would just say, we have these problems, they persist. Brick and mortar folks don't understand.

Seth Fleischauer (19:06.287)
Awesome.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (19:31.333)
There isn't context for us, text that is guiding us, research that, all these things. so I challenge myself to say, am I seeing this wrong? So I appreciate you asking that question so much because I've wrestled with it. And let me tell you, I've landed time and time again on the fuzzy, on the similarities. It's just, it goes back to that human connection. It just might be the tool that you use, you may not need to use in the brick and mortar.

Seth Fleischauer (19:49.894)
You

Allyson (19:50.588)
the

Bre (Dr. Wall) (20:00.187)
but the actual fundamental practices are not dissolved. Like we still need to rely on them. And I think sometimes we're thinking it's so much different that we're not, we're not relying. Okay, I need a fresh new tool belt and therefore online learning is lacking X, Y, and Z. And therefore online learning can't be for students with disabilities. Wait, wait, slow down, slow down. Let's rebuild our foundation and then let's move forward. And there absolutely are going to be different differences.

Seth Fleischauer (20:20.104)
Hmm.

Allyson (20:21.594)
Yeah.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (20:29.326)
But it doesn't take away from that fundamental ground that we need to build. Your examples were great too. Little tiny hammer. That was awesome, Seth.

Allyson (20:36.626)
I wondered just a question, looking to the future and the idea how beautifully you've put it, there isn't that difference between the in-person and the virtual. How does that make you feel about the hybrid learning experience and living, working, learning experience? When you say thinking about that idea of foundation, sometimes we're so excited to jump into those new tools. Like AI is a big conversation.

But then in a video call, sometimes you're looking at someone's forehead and you're like, no, no, wait, go back here. Let me help you, you know, feel comfortable in this virtual environment. And that's kind of like a found date, almost in the digital world, a foundational experience. So I wonder with the idea of that hybrid approaching more and more in across industry, what did, how do you feel about that? Or what do you see when you look in the future?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (21:32.757)
hybrid. I really appreciate it. I just see the three prongs, the completely online, hybrid, and then the brick and mortar. I'm like, how neat is this? This is accessibility at its finest. We still need to fine tune our systems, but it's like, that's pretty cool. And for the first few years in the online schools I was supporting, there was actually an in-person component to it. And so we had what were called blended learning centers. And I actually got to go spend time and visit those.

Allyson (21:44.238)
Yeah, I like the fuzziness.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (22:01.667)
and see what that's like to sort of switch back and forth. And for some of it, the purpose of them going was work related reasons for the parents that they, you know, needed their students to be somewhere and how neat that we can meet that logistical need there. And for others, it was like, my kiddo needs to be in person. Like he needs this, you know, human contact.

Allyson (22:19.954)
you

Bre (Dr. Wall) (22:20.697)
And so it's neat because they're getting both. I do think that one of the complexities that arises is just checking on our people, you know, that are being served, our students are being served through blended learning, because you got to balance both sides now. Balancing that in-person and what that experience is like, and then shifting, are they shifting daily? Is it every other day? Is it once a week? Is it, you know, a collaborative once a month? And just making sure that we're doing everything we need to help them be able.

to balance those. And it reminds me of a higher education study that was done at a Johns Hopkins. It was checking on actually doctoral students in terms of time management and things that they were facing, living their lives in person, lively, and attending to an online program. And so I'm reminded of that and saying like, even for adults, we sometimes struggle with the balance of what I'm doing here, live in person, and then my duties and the things that I'm engaging in online. And so even adults.

need strategies and guidance to be able to do that effectively. So just making sure, again, foundational tool we're pulling out, understanding our people and their experiences, and then responding to those needs, even in a hybrid setting.

Seth Fleischauer (23:40.401)
Yeah, that emotional climate piece, you know, I, I, I interview people in, shoot. Sorry. I, I didn't hear the end of what you said there. It was kind of choppy. What was the end of what you said?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (23:57.391)
Just now?

Oh, I hadn't slaved it. Oh, just that we go back to that basic tool belt and we have to pull from there again. And regardless of whether it's digital, completely hybrid or in-person, that we just need to make sure we're going to the foundation of what do the people I'm serving need and drown out the rest so that you can focus on the specialized needs of your contacts and then respond differently when, you know, needs to be done. Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (24:27.611)
Yeah, it's that emotional climate piece. It's one of those things that you come across where you're like, yeah, that's the everything. That's the everything piece. Like that's the one that allows for the rest of the things to happen. Got it, got it. Okay, let's spend some time working on that. I had a question in here about results.

Allyson (24:35.822)
Yeah, main ingredient.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (24:37.919)
Yep.

See you tomorrow.

Allyson (24:46.289)
you

Bre (Dr. Wall) (24:46.82)
Well done.

Seth Fleischauer (24:51.255)
And, but I, but I know what you're going to say, right? Because it's like, if I ask you what the results are of like building a strong emotional climate in a virtual school, you're going to tell me basically it's whatever results I want out of my students, right? Like, because like it is the enabler to get you to the point that you want to, that you want to go. So I'm going to ask a different question and I'm going to bring in a quote from Adam Bear from our 25th episode. His daughter is deaf and hard of hearing. This, this is his quote.

Allyson (25:03.922)
Thank

Allyson (25:10.226)
You

Bre (Dr. Wall) (25:16.262)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (25:20.275)
Distance learning really is a great leveler, right? It doesn't matter where you live. It doesn't matter how much you make. It doesn't matter what your socioeconomic background is. If you can find the time to tune into an event, you can participate in world-class education that you're probably not going to get at your local elementary school or high school. And I think what this highlights is the access piece, right? He says it's a great leveler. But, you know,

We, what we've teased out here is that sometimes access isn't enough, right? Like the emotional climate is also important. access is sorry.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (25:57.329)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Fleischauer (26:00.603)
The emotional climate is also important. Access is something that could potentially work against the emotional climate. Depending on what's happening, you might be inviting in people who are not part of the community. You've got to do more work to rebuild it. Maybe it's a one-off. A lot of the people in our community are content providers through CILC. They come into classrooms as a special event. They're not building an emotional client, climate, right? Like they are

Bre (Dr. Wall) (26:28.849)
Bingo.

Seth Fleischauer (26:29.287)
taking advantage of one, but they're not building one. So I'm wondering how you kind of square these two ideas, right? The idea that distance learning provides access where there is none, but that emotional climate is critical for success in distance learning.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (26:45.421)
my goodness. So I appreciate that quote. It's just so special. And what I love most is it's a voice from a lived experience, and that's a research study in and of itself. And so we know for sure that it is leveling the playing field for many. And then we also know that we need to prioritize that cultural aspect. And I think the way we really bring those together,

to be front and centers for them just not to be seen in isolation. For it to be the way that you level the playing field through digital learning is by prioritizing emotional climate. And then you can list your other things because there are other things, but like have them go hand in hand. That's how you do it. It's not just that poof, you have a video screen and there it is. You have a wifi connection. It's like, no, actually. And I think sometimes that was believed to be it that we could just do that.

Allyson (27:34.578)
you

Allyson (27:42.406)
Yeah.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (27:43.025)
once upon a time. But no, it's like the way that we do it is by prioritizing emotional client. And we know like, you know, when we say that it's the foundational things that matter, whether you're brick and mortar, you're in digital learning, it's so true, but it doesn't take away from like, once I know, I'm going to do something different. And I want to go back to that piece when we talk about accessibility, because there are students, marginalized populations who may not have a steady Wi Fi connection.

who may have family members or they themselves do lack some technological knowledge, which is beyond just marginalized populations. But so it's again, once I've learned these things, we have to make sure we're responding so that we can level the playing field so that we can have that human connection. And so just remembering like all that goes into that. But I just love the example of like, it's happening and people are thriving from it. And so that's something to be studied.

excited about and then how can we maximize that so that everyone can have that experience because the truth is they aren't all having it because there's more work for us to do to level that.

Allyson (28:52.442)
so inspiring, yes. I'm like, yes, all the things, yes.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (28:58.179)
Awesome. I'm holding them.

Seth Fleischauer (28:58.387)
We we ask yeah, you're like tickling Allison's funny bone talk about research You're like yes research research more our listeners can't see the clapping but there's clapping happening

Allyson (29:02.45)
I'm like, this is it. Yeah. I'm very excited. I'm like, Oh, I love all the studies. Going to get the books. Can't wait to think. Yes. Let's research all the things. Yes. I'm so, yeah, especially I love the idea. It's like so motivating. Like there's still work that needs to be done. There is benefit and the idea of being able to document the lived experience, be able to bring all of those together to say, this is why this is what people are talking about and seeing results in, in their personal lives.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (29:05.787)
I love it.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (29:09.777)
Yes!

Allyson (29:31.856)
learning lives or scholastic lives. It's just a professional. So many opportunities. And sometimes it can be scary. Technology can sometimes be scary, sometimes changing, even if it's changing a new tool in the classroom, whatever in person or digital, can be scary. But it motivates me to hear like, yes, we just need to help put some more information out there to inspire and make people feel comfortable.

Because even when we talk about the students, it's the teachers too that's so great to hear about how you work with the educators to make them comfortable. Because if they're comfortable, then they're going to give that to their students.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (30:09.521)
Yes, absolutely. Well said.

Seth Fleischauer (30:11.923)
When you mentioned the word thriving, sorry, you mentioned the word thriving and I think that that's a great word to bring into this next question, which is a question we ask all of our listeners. We talk about a golden moment in distance learning, an example of when the technology is functioning at its highest self, when it's vibrating at that frequency of perfection.

Allyson (30:14.336)
It didn't.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (30:16.953)
I love that word.

Seth Fleischauer (30:39.315)
Can you describe, tell a story about a golden moment in distance learning?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (30:45.917)
yes. so quite a few come to mind. I'm going to pick the one that pops up first. it is, there was a series of conversations I had with a father who was a parent of an elementary student in one of our online schools, came in new after the school year had started and became frustrated very quickly. Just feeling like, you know, some of our practices were limiting, not considering the unique needs of his daughter.

And so at the director level, I got involved in the case. First thing I did was call dad to just, you know, talk to him and hear, make sure his voice was heard, get to hear all the details straight from him. And what he began to do is tell me about his journey having autism. And he recommended I read the book, The Reason I Jump. And this was such a you go into these conversations, sometimes you don't know what you're going to get out of them. And

what that advice did and what that connection call did is it allowed me to, I think it influenced my motivation. I would have done things a certain way regardless because I have a duty and I serve and that's what we do in our roles in schools. But once you have that human connection, and then now I feel like I'm better equipped because he opened up and shared these things to now turn to the team and say, hey, here are some things to get to know dad and his lived experiences.

that are impacting his perspective. So some biases coming into play. And then also just some ideas that he has. And lastly, third prong is he's saying, hey, I want you to know this is what I'm expecting in return. So how neat of it that he's like, I want to see teachers reaching out. I want to see them acknowledge some of the things that I've shared that worked in another environment that I want to consider bringing back in. And then I just want to know what is being done and how quickly is it being done.

that last piece did is it said, okay, if we want success here, it's not necessarily that we need to go meet some demands or we need to make a parent happy. And I say this because sometimes these things are said, it's not what it's about. I now know what he expects. So even if there's something that is not going to be met in the way he expects it, I've got to respond to it. So he's given me an open door to say, here are my frustrations, here are how I grew up or some things that I face here, even have a resource.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (33:07.665)
And then lastly, like, I'm expecting this in response. So our team rallied together. We talked through strategies. We made sure that we were reading this new IEP that was coming to us, did all those logistical things, and then said, hey, just so you know, like, let me position this. This is where he's coming from. These are the things. And when we responded, oh my goodness, that talk about when you say success story, the light in the low. Now everyone's like, oh, now I talked to dad the other day and such and such. And oh my goodness, like, how fascinating is that?

because now we've made a human connection. get what's on the other side of the screen and we're not just seeing it as upset or judging our practices or assuming that we haven't considered this. No, now I know what's going on. And he didn't get off the phone necessarily like resolved either, but he definitely showed respect, appreciation for the call. And then it's what we did thereafter.

Allyson (33:58.176)
you

Bre (Dr. Wall) (34:02.373)
So I highlight that as success because moving forward, there was a lot of relief from the team. And I feel like it almost removed a layer of bias that some of our team members may have had because they didn't feel respected. They felt like there was someone coming in with some judgments having been made. And so it relieved that and they were able to move forward and just work well together. And so that's what I consider a success and not even the end results of like,

Did she go on to graduate years later or anything? It's just like in that moment with that problem, my success is the immediate response that we had and the relationship that I witnessed thereafter be fostered. And then we are, it's not to say hurdles won't exist. Come on, that's not what, that's not the world that we live in is full of that ongoing. It's more of are we doing this in tandem together and will we see more successes than challenges?

Allyson (34:49.202)
you

Seth Fleischauer (34:58.609)
Hmm. There's been a steady drumbeat this episode and it has been personal relationships, intentionality, follow through in ways that make sense based on what you learn, right? Like it's that over and over again. So I love that your golden moment also illustrated that. Thank you.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (35:10.735)
Yeah.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (35:16.091)
Thank

Allyson (35:16.134)
Connection is so wonderful, the importance of connection.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (35:20.017)
Thank you. I'm loving this. I'm continuing myself.

Seth Fleischauer (35:21.223)
Yeah, the beauty of connection in a medium that is unique to so far, unique to our people, right? People who are alive today are the first people to be able to use this technology to connect. And so many people who go to online school are there for...

you know, a reason that probably has to do with connection, right? Whether it's connecting to the culture of the school, the social climate of the school, the emotional climate, the things that are taught there, to be able to give another avenue for connection, I think is incredibly powerful. And I'm wondering if that might be part of your answer to our titular question, Dr. Brianna Seawall, why distance learning?

Bre (Dr. Wall) (36:13.809)
Accessibility for all is possible. again, I even reflect back on that quote really touched me and I even studied deaf culture for several semesters in college. So it's neat that you shared that from a previous guest, but it has the potential. And if there's something that has a potential to reach people who feel or believe they're not being reached in a brick and mortar for whatever reason, then.

That's incredible and that's something that I want to be involved in. I don't want to just be involved in this one thing. If I'm truly for all people and answering that call of what are we doing for others, then I care about digital learning and I want to contribute to that environment.

Seth Fleischauer (36:58.035)
Allison, last thoughts, feelings?

Allyson (37:01.546)
I'm just so inspired and motivated. This conversation, we're talking about video calls, so I'm like, we're seeing each other. So I'm just so inspired and motivated. After our conversation today, I'm really grateful to learn from you and of course receive all of those sources as well that you dropped along the way. Can't wait to read up and get all of those. But really, really appreciate it and thank you so much as well because it makes me think a lot about my own teaching experiences.

my own way of approaching different conversations about education as well as my approach when teaching. So I really appreciate learning from you today and can't wait to learn more from you.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (37:37.553)
So.

Seth Fleischauer (37:40.285)
Well, thank you so much, Brianna, for being here. I am very excited to see you at DLAC at the end of February. If any of our listeners are going to be there as well, come and find us. We will be presenting on virtual school culture at a cool method. It's called the fishbowl, right? So we're going to start with like four people up on stage. And then if anybody from the audience wants to replace one of us, they just come up and replace one of us. And then they talk to, so we'll see. We'll see how that goes. Yeah, should be fun. You can.

Allyson (38:02.076)
Fun! So sass! Exciting!

Bre (Dr. Wall) (38:03.706)
Me.

Bre (Dr. Wall) (38:07.889)
It'll be fun.

Seth Fleischauer (38:10.343)
Check the show notes for this episode at cilc.org slash podcast. Thank you as always to our editor, Lucas Salazar. If you'd like to support the podcast, please tell a friend, it, leave us a review, follow us. And if you're curious about the realities behind the perceptions of distance learning, stay tuned to the voices we highlight on this podcast. These are the innovators and educators proving what's possible in live virtual learning, challenging misconceptions and transforming education along the way. Why distance learning? Because it's evolving.

Allyson (38:17.906)
Thank

Seth Fleischauer (38:39.973)
impactful and here to stay. See you next time.