Why Distance Learning?

Seth Fleischauer (00:00.533)
You done fidgeting? yeah. Let's, let's meet our phones. Good. All right. Look at these opportunities. okay. Here we go. Hello everyone. And welcome to why distance learning the podcast that delves into the transformative power of live virtual learning hosted by three seasoned distance learning professionals. We bring you interviews with industry experts.

Alicia Hughes (00:04.334)
And I'm gonna meet my phone. Look at that. Look at that. All the things happening

Allyson (00:04.589)
Yeah, now.

Seth Fleischauer (00:27.753)
as we challenge common misconceptions and explore the true impact of distance learning in today's world. We are at our 49th episode and we were like, Hey, let's just round up to 50 and say we've done 50 of these, right? Tammy Allison. Do we feel that way? Yes. It's been two. It's been almost two years. Yes. And, and we are taking the opportunity to do a little, a little bit of a strategic reboot here. We're going to be framing these episodes around

Allyson (00:42.455)
Yes. Yes. Because we had multiple guests. Yes.

Tami Moehring (00:44.33)
Sounds good to me

Seth Fleischauer (00:57.639)
some common perceptions of distance learning. And for the most part, these perceptions were formed over the course of the pandemic. Our little medium here went from something that absolutely nobody had an opinion about to something that everybody has an opinion about. And a lot of those opinions are well-formed based in reality. Some of them are less informed. And we just really want to tease out the reality of the situation. We've got a list of like maybe

think it's like 12 of these perceptions and the perception that we're going to be focusing on today is the idea that you can't build culture online. We're going to present some evidence for and against and we're going to answer that question highlighting the experience of our guest Alicia Hughes. Alicia welcome to the program.

Alicia Hughes (01:46.678)
I am so excited to be here. Thank you all for having me.

Seth Fleischauer (01:50.389)
We're so excited to have you as well. I'm very happy to bring you together with Allison and Tammy. We said this is hosted by seasoned distance learning professionals. That is all four of us here in this room. You added up, and I think our experience qualifies for Medicare. No, sorry. Let me say that again. If you add that all up, I'm pretty sure our experience qualifies for AARP benefits or whatever you get at 65.

Allyson (02:08.857)
You

Seth Fleischauer (02:17.781)
But Tammy, could you please take a moment to introduce our guest Alicia?

Tami Moehring (02:25.558)
I would be happy to. At Sparking Up Leadership, Alicia's mission revolves around revolutionizing the way organizations engage in virtual spaces with a focus on leadership excellence and team dynamics. we're going to restart because I realize I am reading the second paragraph of your bio, Alicia. So Lucas, ignore that.

Allyson (02:45.797)
haha

Alicia Hughes (02:46.371)
I don't even know what paragraph you're on.

Tami Moehring (02:49.452)
Well, glad you didn't know. Okay, we'll start again. I'd be happy to introduce Alicia Seth. Alicia is the founder of Sparking Up Leadership designed to help organizations thrive in the virtual realm. She has over 20 years of experience in the world of education, including middle and high school teaching experience, a sense of principle in principle roles, and time spent as the school leader at the largest school in the state of South Carolina.

Alicia brings her enthusiasm for creating strong cultures to work her work. As sparking up leadership, Alicia's mission revolves around revolutionizing the way organizations engage in virtual spaces with a focus on leadership excellence and team dynamics. Alicia navigates the complexities of remote work efficiently and effectively. Her approach has turned virtual meetings from mundane to vibrant, fostering productivity and genuine connection.

She is also responsible for creating virtual cultures that thrive on collaboration and productivity. I love all the words in that paragraph. Alicia is also a published author on leadership best practices. Having just released the book, Sparking Up Leadership, Igniting Your Influence with Sparkle and Sunshine, a book that puts an emphasis on relationships, positivity, joy, and fun at the core of leadership through antidotes and insights.

Alicia reveals the transformative power of treating others as you wish to be treated, a timeless truth at the heart of effective leadership. Alicia lives in Charleston, South Carolina with her husband Rusty of 20 years and her three children, Rence, Haven, and Poppy, and her silver lab, Blitzen. Love that name. She loves all things sun, salt, water, and sand, attending concerts and traveling. Welcome, Alicia.

Seth Fleischauer (04:32.259)
Allyson (04:33.161)
yay!

Alicia Hughes (04:39.958)
I am so excited to be here and great job reading that very lengthy bio. mean, I could have probably shortened that up for y'all a little bit.

Allyson (04:44.047)
hahahaha

Tami Moehring (04:47.531)
No, but I love it!

Seth Fleischauer (04:48.469)
No problem. mean, all over that... And all over that bio, you have the word culture. So you really were the right person to come on to talk about this particular perception that you can't build culture online, or at least that it's very difficult to do so. You have a great story along those lines. And we are here to hear that story. Before we...

Allyson (04:51.311)
Yes!

Seth Fleischauer (05:13.001)
do that, we're introducing a new component of our podcast where we're presenting some research. There is plenty of research that's been done on the field, even more so in the last few years, obviously, as it became more widespread. so Allison is in her happy place when she's doing research or finding research to put here. So we're going to go to her now. Allison, the perception that you can't build culture online, where is the research evidence?

Allyson (05:40.443)
Thank

Seth Fleischauer (05:42.355)
for that statement.

Allyson (05:44.003)
Yeah, well, first off, Alicia, I'm so excited and I also love sparkles and sunshine. So I just love everything that you have to say. And I just can't wait to learn more from you. But some of the things that we appreciate you being able to dive into these different topics, because as Seth mentioned, the topics come from different conversations we've had with individuals across the field. So some of the perceptions that came up in the idea of like how

Alicia Hughes (05:50.913)
watching.

Allyson (06:10.777)
boundaries can be blurred in the idea that you can't really build a culture, a group culture, a learning culture, a classroom culture in these online environments, because in some cases you're blurring those spaces of home and school or work and home and how that balances out. So we have a couple different studies that we'll link into the bio, but that's one area that has come up in the conversations and we found some evidence for. And then the idea of being able to have

building wider perspectives when learning can be asynchronous, how much of that balances with the synchronous to be able to have different perspectives, different opportunities for people that might be in remote locations actually understand or interact with peers or field specialists to widen out the scope and how that may not really be as available in some of the online community building. So I guess for you and all of your amazing background, I wonder,

One of the things I'd love to jump into is, what are some of your practical steps or some of the examples that you have seen to be able to kind of not debunk, but say, hey, these are some challenges that you may come up against, but here are some examples or some promising practices that you could implement where you are. And I think that you have such a perspective both for the students as an educator, but also as a leader. So how you can do that.

as a leader with people not in the same specific space.

Alicia Hughes (07:40.866)
Well, thank you. I love culture. And I know culture is the most important thing to have in an organization. I know that. I have been at places where there is a lack of strong culture and they never meet their goals. They never reach their objectives. And so I knew that starting at a fully virtual school, that that was key to success, that you have to build the culture first in order to reach all these goals that you want to reach.

But doing it virtually is different, right? Like making connections, relationships, building that out in this space takes a different way of thinking. And it is not impossible. I know there is data to say it is, but it is not impossible because we did that here in the state of South Carolina at the largest public school. We had consistent staff satisfaction, 98 % over and over and over on our yearly surveys. Our turnover rate was minimal. mean, people left because

Allyson (08:34.244)
Yay!

Alicia Hughes (08:39.824)
they were moving or you know had a baby or something like that but people didn't leave and that was because of that culture that we built and that allowed us to reach our goals of graduation rate of 90 % and passage rates in the 90s and all the things that you need as a school.

But I was at the school at the beginning when we were in the building stage, right? When we were first starting out and the culture was not there at first. It was very isolated because we were all over the state as were our students and everyone logged in, did their own thing, logged out at the end of the day. There was not a lot of collaboration, conversation, connection.

Allyson (08:59.483)
You

Alicia Hughes (09:20.328)
And we realized immediately the leadership team, we had to build that. We had to create that space and had to do it with intentionality. And the very first thing we did, one of the questions you asked was what are some things that you did, was we said when you are meeting with staff members, your camera's gonna be on. Simple, right? Simple. A simple step.

Allyson (09:24.059)
Hmm.

Allyson (09:40.133)
Hmm. Yeah. A simple norm. Yeah.

Alicia Hughes (09:43.83)
A simple norm that said if you are meeting with another staff member, turn your camera on. Well y'all, you would have thought that we ask people to drive across the state and meet face to face, right? Like people were very upset by this norm. What if my hair is not done? What if my makeup's not on? What if I'm in my pajamas? And we would say, we don't care about your hair and your makeup. We need to see eye to eye, face to face. We need to know that you are engaged in the conversations.

Allyson (09:51.779)
Yeah

Seth Fleischauer (09:55.603)
hahaha

Alicia Hughes (10:12.246)
And y'all, I believe that that small, which seems small, norm, was what sent us on the trajectory to building that strong culture and building those relationships. So that was one simple step we took to really change the trajectory in those early days.

Seth Fleischauer (10:28.787)
I know that cameras on is a real challenge for a lot of virtual school teachers, especially in high school. Basically the more, you you talked about like, we don't care about your hair and makeup. Like, you know, which age person cares most about their hair and makeup, right? Like, like high schoolers are intensely aware of how they're being perceived by their peers. And in a digital space, they might not have like the full ability to like, control that perception to the extent that they'd like to. a lot of.

high schoolers turn their cameras off. You had that norm for your staff. Did it bleed over into the high school students? How did you cross that bridge?

Alicia Hughes (11:06.806)
You're so perceptive, Seth. I mean, that was a challenge and we could not. We absolutely could not make that mandate for our students. We couldn't set that norm for lots of reasons. Some didn't have cameras. Some had internet that wasn't the strongest that wouldn't allow. And some, like you said, just were not comfortable. They were at our school for lots of reasons and they were not in a space where they felt comfortable turning on their camera.

but we ensured our staff had their cameras on when they were engaging with students. And it was almost like a good peer pressure, right? Like it was weird if you're one-on-one with your teacher and they've got their camera on and you don't have yours on, or if you're in a classroom, a virtual classroom, and half the class has cameras on, you tended to hit that button. So that's where it started. But we said to every single staff member,

Right now in the early days, we don't care about grades, we don't care about completion, we don't even care about graduation rate. We want every student at this school to feel a connection. And if they can't turn on their camera, we'll then call them. Well then text them, we'll email them. Find a way to connect with every single one of our students, build a relationship with every single one of our students first. And then when you know them and know what they need,

then you'll know why they don't have their camera on or that they prefer texting, and you'll be able to build those relationships and then help them with their goals and their objectives. So for students, it was different.

Seth Fleischauer (12:36.709)
And it feels like from that simple, not so simple step of getting to know everybody, that the solutions toward building culture, I imagine, stem from each of those conversations. So it's like, whatever this kid needs, whatever that kid needs, whatever makes that kid feel comfortable, those are the things that you're weaving into your culture. It's not necessarily some one size fits all. It's more about an approach. Would you say that that is true of how you got there?

Allyson (12:40.987)
you

Alicia Hughes (13:06.894)
Absolutely correct every child and we grew to be the largest school in the state 6,300 kids y'all 6,300 kids we We could truly individualize for those students and our teachers knew Okay, Alicia's not gonna have her camera on because of XYZ. I'm not gonna try to peer pressure her into putting her camera on I'm gonna find a way to connect with her

Allyson (13:12.483)
Yay! Congratulations!

Seth Fleischauer (13:14.217)
Wow.

Alicia Hughes (13:31.02)
beyond that. I'm going to make sure that I can meet her needs in a different way." And it just became a part of what we did so naturally and so normally to put those relationships first, but again, everything else just fell in line.

Seth Fleischauer (13:45.685)
And can you connect the dots for me? Like it makes sense for me. You said we needed that culture. Once we got that culture, then we got all of this great academic, all these great academic results. That passes like the stink test for me, right? Like the smell test. I'm like, yeah, that makes sense. But can you like connect the dots? Why is good culture a prerequisite?

for achieving those types of stellar academic results.

Alicia Hughes (14:16.824)
Well, when you don't have a relationship with someone, it's easy to have a hard stance, right? Like you didn't turn in your paper on time, you get a zero. You didn't pass this test, I'm not going to let you retake. But when you have a relationship and you say to someone, why didn't you turn in your paper on time?

What happened? Why is this late? And they give you their reasonings and you can go back and forth. okay. I'll give you an extension. Why did you fail this test? This happened, this happened. Okay. Let me have some time with you to help you understand the material. Then we'll retake it. And so those things happen slowly. And I said we went to 90 % graduation rate. That did not happen overnight, y'all. I mean, we were at 30. We were at 30 % in the early days. I mean, it was abysmal.

Allyson (14:59.129)
Yeah, that's so great.

Seth Fleischauer (15:02.741)
Hmm.

Alicia Hughes (15:05.536)
It was a slow build on that, but when the staff started buying in and working together too with 6,300 kids and a staff of 260, obviously you have to work together.

And so we would set up structures that would allow for sharing of information. Alicia didn't turn in her paper because XYZ, give her grace, call her, text her. So we had systems in place that allowed us to know what was going on with these kids if we needed to know and then react to the situation based on our role.

Seth Fleischauer (15:37.481)
Huh, yeah, I mean, it's like, can't, like, without relationships, you can't have binding expectations, right? Like, without those relationships, those expectations don't mean anything. Wow, so powerful. Allison, I know that there's also, in addition to the evidence that you cited that challenged the idea of building virtual culture, at least identified some of the obstacles,

Alicia Hughes (15:45.838)
you

Alicia Hughes (15:49.582)
They don't.

Allyson (15:51.927)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (16:05.385)
think you also have some evidence that it is possible. Could you share that with us?

Allyson (16:10.181)
Well, that's what I was just thinking the whole time is, you know, everything that you're saying is echoing a lot of what the studies or the research that we, you know, that we've, and the conversations that we've had in different contexts, the idea that it's about the trust in the community. And it sounds like it's really interesting to hear how you grew from, you know, 30 % to 90 % or thinking about those milestones. And it sounds like it really comes back a lot to the staff, the buy-in of the staff.

If you inspire one staff member or one educator, you inevitably get to inspire 30 students in some cases. So I think it's really interesting to learn more about your approach with your staff and being able to help them build up that capacity and also to help them engage their students in being able to open up and trust them. As well as the other interesting thing is, you know,

Alicia Hughes (16:45.592)
Yes.

Allyson (17:03.119)
One situation is the platforms that you're using or the tools that you're using. Like technology is really trending, really trendy, but what trend works for you and how do you optimize it? Oftentimes we'll have, we'll see that educators or education staff can have the tool, but not necessarily understand how to optimize it. So how are some of the strategies, how do you employ some strategies to ensure your staff stays up to date?

with both their tools, like those kind of nuts and bolts situation, but as well as being able to be socially and emotionally aware for themselves and their students.

Alicia Hughes (17:40.15)
And we wanted these relationships with our students, of course, staffed students, but as a leadership team, we had to pour into the staff, right? And so that was our role, that we were gonna pour into the staff so that the staff in turn would pour into the students. And so it...

Allyson (17:49.206)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (17:49.79)
Hmm.

Alicia Hughes (17:58.272)
was practicing what you preach, right? So like I surely could not come into a call and turn my camera off because I didn't have my hair done and my makeup on, right? Like I had to come in some mornings with hair all askew and looking rough, but knowing I got to turn on this camera at 7.30, gotta go. And doing modeling what we wanted to see. And then that being available.

Allyson (18:10.927)
You

Alicia Hughes (18:20.878)
I was on calls all the time with, can I talk to you for just a minute, Alicia? I've got this situation. I want to run by you. There were plenty of times I had lots of other things waiting for me to attend to, but I would stop and say, I need to care for my staff. need to pour into them and help them through this. So again, they can in turn go back and pour into the students. And so it really was a very top down approach that we care for our staff. So they will in turn care for the students and have those tools that they need.

We had professional development opportunities and that is the beauty of the virtual space, right? That we weren't tied to this very rigid school schedule where you have lunch duty and car rider lines. So we could weave things into the day a little bit more readily. But we would give our staff as many tools as possible, which is a blessing and a curse, y'all. I mean, it is a blessing and a curse, right? Because you know, there is so much out there and there were times people would go, Alicia, there is like 40 seconds.

Allyson (19:01.733)
You

Seth Fleischauer (19:02.92)
you

Hmm.

Allyson (19:12.981)
Yeah, the bigger the toolbox.

Alicia Hughes (19:20.8)
different platforms you want me to try to master to help do all these things. I just want one." I'm like, okay, I get it. I get it. So that is a blessing and a curse, but we would recognize when there was a need, we would investigate, we would try to find what we thought was the best route, we train staff, and we would help them again as much as possible to get through the learning curve so that they would be able to utilize those tools.

Seth Fleischauer (19:25.393)
You

Seth Fleischauer (19:46.165)
Hmm, that's beautiful. Sorry, hold on.

new segment that we are introducing now. Hold on, I need a better, hold on. Thank you as we work this out, Alicia. Okay.

Allyson (19:55.963)
You

Alicia Hughes (20:03.448)
It's all good, all good, I love it.

Allyson (20:04.387)
It is so beautiful though, because I really feel like you are speaking so much about the importance of staff and really seeing how it starts there. And in so many times, that's not always the story that's being told or the framework that people are really looking to. It's how the tool works or how some, it doesn't always come back to that personal, that connection to that person.

disseminating the knowledge or not really even disseminating the knowledge, helping guide someone on constructing knowledge.

Alicia Hughes (20:39.98)
Yeah, it is. It gets lost, especially I feel like in the school system, right? Because you've got all these lofty goals and mandates and things that you have to meet because the state says you have to, your district says you have to, so they get lost in the shuffle. The people get lost in the shuffle because you're so focused in on, I've got to meet graduation rate. Whereas we flipped that and said, nope, we got to take care of our staff so we can meet graduation rate.

Allyson (20:51.887)
Yeah.

Allyson (20:59.93)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (21:03.092)
Yeah.

Culture eats strategy for breakfast.

Allyson (21:06.059)
so awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, and it's such a great thing because culture really defines just a set of behaviors that connect a group of people. And so it's great to see how you have defined that within your community from the staff to the school students that are up to six over six thousand, which is so awesome.

Alicia Hughes (21:09.198)
That's my favorite quote! That's my favorite quote!

Alicia Hughes (21:27.423)
Crazy. Crazy.

Seth Fleischauer (21:31.029)
All right, that's going to be a little break and then we're going to come back and I'm going to say another segment that we are adding to our little potpourri of approaches here at why distance learning is going to be bringing in some quotes from previous guests. we had an amazing founder of a, an international virtual school named Noam Gerstein on the podcast. few episodes back, Tammy, I thought she had a really great quote.

Do think you could share that with Alicia so we can get her reaction to that quote?

Tami Moehring (22:04.566)
Yeah, the quote was, the border of the freedom is where it hits another freedom. And so the questions there are, how do we as a group recognize that there is a clash between my freedom and your freedom, and together draw what borders are? So it's about being awake to the fact that there is a clash and that is two types of freedoms. And then we can discuss how do we define that order and so make an arrangement on behaviors.

So with that kind of is how do you navigate competing needs and freedoms within a virtual school culture, teacher or staff wise just to say, and also student wise at the same time.

Alicia Hughes (22:46.262)
Gosh, I mean, I am like getting a little bit of the shakes over here over that question because we would hear from families all the time, we chose this school because of the flexibility, right? You you can't tell me I have to go to this math class because I chose this school because I only want to do my work at midnight, right? So like we would hear that over and over about my freedom, my preference, my needs. And we would always go back to, okay.

Allyson (22:49.804)
In.

Seth Fleischauer (22:59.733)
Hmm.

Alicia Hughes (23:14.318)
If you can pass your math class and do it at midnight, that is wonderful. We are happy for you. However,

If you can't pass your math class because you're doing it at midnight, it is our responsibility as educators to help you find a way to achieve these goals. And perhaps the midnight math class is not working for you. So let's look at this from another option. But again, Tammy, it came back to those relationships, right? Like really knowing what would work for the students. Some kids a midnight math class would be great and it would work.

Allyson (23:37.307)
you

Alicia Hughes (23:47.138)
but others it wouldn't. And so we would have those conversations and say, sure, if you can do it that way, wonderful, do it that way. And so that was, we had a lot of flexibility, but when we saw the choices some of our families and students were making weren't working for them, that was our job to come in and help guide them to paths that would allow them to be successful.

Seth Fleischauer (24:06.261)
Hmm.

Allyson (24:08.889)
That's so amazing. And the interconnected conversation that you have set up for your staff to be able to recognize those experiences in tandem with having the students be able to get digital skill sets where they can say, this is the type of worker I am. I'm a night owl. I'm somebody that's going to be the early bird. Tammy and I were just talking about how when we were working with some groups, they would put really nice away messages on their emails. Like, this is the time that I'm responding.

Alicia Hughes (24:25.518)
you

Allyson (24:37.669)
for me, but respond when it works for you. And just those little digital decorum that can build up is such an intrinsic opportunity for learning for kids.

Alicia Hughes (24:37.965)
next

Alicia Hughes (24:48.61)
Yes.

Seth Fleischauer (24:49.927)
Yeah. And I really liked this idea, you know, and talking about like where freedoms come up against each other, a great way to to bridge that divide is through common goals and values. And that's what I heard from you. Right. Is that like, yes, you want your freedoms, but the thing that we share is your goal to pass this math class. Right. And so we use that as our anchor point.

Alicia Hughes (25:16.11)
you

Seth Fleischauer (25:19.143)
And then as long as we're anchored there, we can navigate this way or that. can float around the anchor point. But that anchor point is the most important one. So I really like the way that you used that example. And I'm wondering if you have another example for us. Something that we do here on the podcast that we've done for all 49 episodes at this point is ask about a golden moment in distance learning. So this is one of those moments where you're like, my gosh.

Alicia Hughes (25:19.214)
Hmm?

Alicia Hughes (25:27.32)
Mm-hmm.

Seth Fleischauer (25:48.891)
I imagined that it could be this and it is this right now in front of me. Can you tell us what are those stories?

Alicia Hughes (25:56.494)
gosh. So we have so many. was at the school 14 years and again I was there early days 30 % graduation rate to 90 % and largest school in the state. So we had lots of golden moments but one that sticks out this always makes my staff laugh was when we were

Allyson (26:02.393)
Hmm hmmm.

Alicia Hughes (26:19.158)
Working on a state mandated assessment. 11th graders in the state of South Carolina all have to take this assessment. That is meaningless y'all. That is mean. It's a meaningless assessment. It's one of those. Sorry, sorry, It's great. It's wonderful. The data is so impactful. It really predicts the future for these kids. It's super.

Seth Fleischauer (26:29.109)
Shhh don't tell anyone you're not supposed to say that part out loud

Tami Moehring (26:34.702)
Exactly

Alicia Hughes (26:40.502)
But they go in, they take the test. It used to be called the exit exam, but then people didn't like that. And so they changed it to, I forget what it was. And then there were all kinds of, anyway, one of those check the box. I remember, I remember every test that was given over the 14 years. So yes.

Seth Fleischauer (26:49.717)
They called it I forget what it was. Sorry. Horrible name for a test.

Allyson (27:01.827)
Yeah, it's imprinted in your mind.

Seth Fleischauer (27:02.151)
You

Alicia Hughes (27:05.966)
printed in my mind. And so this was 11th graders and they did not see the value and they are virtual students and they do not want to leave their homes to go take an assessment that the state says they have to take in order to and it doesn't even impact graduation. They don't take it. It doesn't matter. So they saw no value in this test.

Seth Fleischauer (27:25.013)
Yeah.

Alicia Hughes (27:25.774)
and we were at the very very you know we had our graduation rate we had all our things but that test every year kept tripping us up because we couldn't get these kids to take this test so i said to my staff i just had this middle of the night which tends to happen to me middle of the night revelation i know what we're gonna do we're gonna tell these kids if they come and take the test we are going to mail them a gift now we had like 800

Seth Fleischauer (27:41.594)
You

Alicia Hughes (27:53.838)
Students at in 11th grade that year. We're gonna mail them a gift. Okay, so think of my office administrators who are like 800 kids. We're all male. Where are we getting the gifts Alicia? What are the gifts going to be? I'm like, I don't know but we're gonna mail them a gift if they come and I want every student to get a personalized phone call Within one week's time because the test was like soon

Seth Fleischauer (28:06.515)
It's the gift of knowledge.

Alicia Hughes (28:16.526)
And I want every student voice to voice. Like I need to know every of these 800 students has been personally invited and knows that this gift is on the way should they take the test. And my staff is like, what are we? We still are trying to teach the students. We're still trying to do all this. I'm like, nope, we are doing this. We are going to call 800 kids within five days and we're going to mail them a gift and we're doing it. And I mean, people thought I was crazy. I thought it was crazy, but I was just desperate to try anything. Y'all.

It worked. I mean, we had like 90 % of these kids come out and I am almost embarrassed to admit. Do you want to know what the gift was? I wish I had thought...

Allyson (28:45.868)
Yay.

Tami Moehring (28:53.742)
I was just gonna ask, Alicia, you have to tell me.

Allyson (28:54.561)
Yeah, I was gonna, yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (28:54.985)
Hershey's Kiss.

Alicia Hughes (28:56.606)
I think I just, it might be in my cabinet. I might go get it and send you a picture that you can look at. It was a wine tumbler, but I didn't know it was a wine tumbler. It was like a little, I thought it was like a mug. Like I ordered it off one of those sites, which, know, it was cheap. was like 800 for a dollar, but it was a wine tumbler that my office staff just boxed up and sent out to high school students. And I was like, no.

Seth Fleischauer (29:01.397)
You

Allyson (29:02.138)
Yes!

Allyson (29:11.533)
Yeah!

Allyson (29:18.811)
Ha ha ha ha.

Seth Fleischauer (29:19.272)
Seth Fleischauer (29:23.253)
Well, graduating high school students, so.

Alicia Hughes (29:26.082)
graduated, but I was like, what have we done? Our logo was on it. It was very cute. But I'm like, so then I had to, yes, communicate out to everyone. Well, that was actually for your parents.

Allyson (29:26.127)
Ha ha ha.

Seth Fleischauer (29:30.396)
Allyson (29:31.227)
my gosh, yes. So silly.

Tami Moehring (29:31.522)
love it.

Allyson (29:40.215)
Yeah!

Alicia Hughes (29:42.668)
So, more on the story. Be more involved with the gift purchasing side of things. Don't just randomly assign someone to purchase a gift. But know that gifts, creativity, and thinking outside the box often is what will help impact change.

Seth Fleischauer (29:51.635)
Yeah

Seth Fleischauer (29:57.941)
How many students took it the following year?

Allyson (29:59.045)
Yeah.

Alicia Hughes (30:02.206)
I was gone by that time, so I don't know! I don't know!

Seth Fleischauer (30:03.381)
I'm just wondering, like in the beginning it's like gift. my God. Is it going to be $2,500? Like what are they? What are they? it's a Tumblr. Okay. It's for my parents. Okay. can

Allyson (30:08.761)
Yeah. Yes.

Alicia Hughes (30:10.246)
Yeah, I think it's a tumbler. Yes. Yeah, okay, yeah, no, I'm not going back the next year. Yeah, I'll have to get that, I'll have to see how they do.

Allyson (30:13.667)
Yeah!

Alicia Hughes (30:23.31)
Seth Fleischauer (30:24.245)
There's another question that we ask every time and it's the name of the podcast. It's why distance learning? I was hoping that before or maybe as to like lead into your answer to that question, you can give us a little bit of context about what you're doing now. This whole time you've been telling us, you know, in the past tense, these stories of you running this virtual school for what was it 14 years or something, 10 years. And so now you're doing something a little different. Tell us that story. And then if you can weave that into the answer to the question, why distance learning?

Alicia Hughes (30:54.84)
So when COVID happened, y'all remember COVID, I am certain in the world shut down, I sat right in this very desk and listened outside those walls to my own children who are not in a virtual school attempting virtual learning. And I could hear and feel the disaster. my gosh, I could just.

Seth Fleischauer (31:11.657)
Oof. This was a rough moment for all of us. Everybody else was like, this is so bad. And we were all like, why is this so bad?

Allyson (31:15.583)
I'm like going back, my heart started just to palpitate. I'm like, huh. No, what's happening? Like.

Alicia Hughes (31:24.142)
It was hard. I know. And I'm like, you know, I'm trying to run the school, but then also be out there, be like, what are these teachers doing? And even listening to my husband's work, like what he was trying to do, I'm like, this is a disaster. And so I knew there was a need. I knew there was a need. And that's why y'all have your podcast, because you know there is a need to spread the word of how to do this well.

Allyson (31:38.309)
Mm.

Alicia Hughes (31:50.176)
and how necessary it is for students. It's not for every child, it's not for every student. But those that need it, it can be done and done really well and really effectively. So I watched it being done poorly and then I was like, huh, okay. And then COVID, you know.

went away and then things happened and people returned and but I still was watching from afar other schools, other organizations that had started during that time that were trying to hang on and I was like what are they doing over there? Why is it that way? And so I after 14 years was ready for a different challenge, was ready to move on and realized my passion is always going to be this to share my knowledge and my love for distance and virtual learning

but how to do it the correct way. And so my business is focused on that. I work with schools and school leaders, just helping them with.

really whatever it is that they need help with in this space, whether it is culture and building culture or engaging students or most recently I was helping with evaluations for teachers that are teaching virtually. And so it is whatever is needed in the space to help these schools really survive. Y'all know that there are many virtual schools across the country that have either shut down or in danger of shutting down. And so just trying to help them.

With all things, best practice is what I'm here to do.

Seth Fleischauer (33:20.309)
And so in that context, Alicia Hughes, 14 year principal of South Carolina's largest school, now distance learning guru, extraordinaire consultant. Why distance learning?

Allyson (33:31.705)
Yay.

Alicia Hughes (33:34.476)
because the traditional school does not work for every child. It does not work for every child.

and the options and availability that distance learning can provide can be magical and life changing. Y'all, I watched it. I watched it for 14 years. I watched kids that were going to drop out of school that thought they had nowhere else to go come in because some random person said, go try that virtual thing and then find success. watched, my gosh, graduation was my favorite day of the year to watch these faces who thought they had nowhere else to turn and they're

lives we're going to be vastly different, get that diploma. So we have to continue to provide those options in a way that allows students to shine and thrive so that we can help all our students. That is why.

Allyson (34:26.198)
Yay!

Seth Fleischauer (34:27.157)
Beautiful. Well, one place that I know people can find you is at the upcoming DLAC conference in Atlanta in late February. That's because you and I are going to be presenting together on the topic of building virtual school culture. So look at that. Hopefully we'll be advertising this episode there, but that's one place if you want to meet Alicia and

Alicia Hughes (34:42.195)
I know, so excited!

Allyson (34:42.669)
Yay!

Alicia Hughes (34:46.902)
Yes!

Seth Fleischauer (34:54.901)
person. She will be there in late February in Atlanta. Alicia, where else can we find information about you? How should people contact

Alicia Hughes (35:02.296)
Well, there's the LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn, so I post a lot of things there. My email is alisha at sparkingupleadership.com, and then I will be at FETC in January, and a local conference here in South Carolina, provided or put on by Winthrop University. So I will be here, there, and everywhere, but LinkedIn is probably the best place virtually to come find me.

Seth Fleischauer (35:29.053)
All right. Sounds good. Alison, Tammy, you guys have last thoughts, questions?

Allyson (35:33.423)
Just so grateful. Thank you so much for sharing all of your insights and all of the work you're doing. I am so excited just by everything that you've done and all the things that you're gonna do. So yay, and I love your, and yeah, just, cannot wait to dive in more with all of your books and all of the different ways that we can continue to learn to build culture and leadership skills.

Alicia Hughes (35:56.398)
Thank you for your

Tami Moehring (35:56.598)
Yes. Thank you so much, Alicia. You did take me on a little bit of a roller coaster flashing back to my children were in online school. I still use it as a threat to tell them to get up in the morning sometimes, but you, it was so warming at the end to just be reminded that it does work when done right for amazing students out there to be able to just reach their goals. And that's the great part. I hope, you know, we through this episode learned that, you know, it does work. It's not as bad out there.

Alicia Hughes (36:02.764)
I'm so sorry.

Allyson (36:02.775)
Yeah.

Seth Fleischauer (36:03.29)
Hehehehe.

Allyson (36:10.904)
Yeah.

Alicia Hughes (36:25.612)
No, no, no. Thank you all for having me.

Seth Fleischauer (36:25.781)
And the key is culture. Yeah, yeah, the key is building that culture. People first. Well, thank you so much, Alicia, for coming on. Thank you, Tammy and Allison. Wonderful to see you as always. For our viewers, sorry, listeners, if you want to get all the links, which will include the research links in addition to the links for CILC for Banyu Global Learning.

Allyson (36:27.781)
Just need to find the right support.

Seth Fleischauer (36:51.707)
and for Alicia's consulting, please do check the show notes. Thank you as always to our editor, Lucas Salazar. If you'd like to support the podcast, please rate it or leave us a review. Tell a friend, follow us. And if you're curious about the realities behind the perceptions of distance learning, stay tuned to the voices we highlight on this podcast. These are the innovators and educators proving what's possible in live virtual learning. Challenging misconceptions,

Allyson (37:00.037)
Thank you.

Seth Fleischauer (37:19.709)
and transforming education along the way. Why distance learning? Because it's evolving, impactful, and here to stay. See you next time.